GBGB: National Strategy Meet on Metro Project - 2
Duration: 01:01:49; Aspect Ratio: 1.333:1; Hue: 82.233; Saturation: 0.032; Lightness: 0.419; Volume: 0.229; Cuts per Minute: 6.113; Words per Minute: 112.386
A two-day-long National Strategy Meet on Metro Projects was held at Ajmera Hall, Mumbai. The meet was attended by representative activists, academicians, environmentalists, transport experts, architects etc from seven cities including Chennai, Mumbai, Bangalore, Pune, Thane, Delhi, Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, etc.
The Meet was held in the context of the announcement of Metro Projects to be introduced in 26 cities with proposed investment of 1 lakh crore rupees. The meet was inaugurated by lighting a "mashal", flame of struggle, by veteran freedom fighter Shri Ajmera, Prof. Swapana Banerjee Guha, Kathiayani Chamraj (CIVIC-Bangalore), Smt Geeta (Metro Yard Hatao Abhiyan-Mumbai) amidst slogans.
Sudhir Badami strongly contested the idea of Metro as the only feasible transit system to solve transport problem of cities. He mentioned that the Delhi Metro Rail project was pushed ahead with inflated rider ship estimates which was not unique to it as many cities across the world had similar experiences. That is, Metro projects were found to be financially un-viable. According to him, international experiences show that nowhere have Metro lines led to traffic de-congestion. Rather, they have resulted in urban de-gradation, with the rich enjoying the subsidies provided by the poor. In almost all cities, the majority of the population (to the extent of 85-90%) uses public transport which needs to be improved and made more efficient.
Mumbai Metro, it has wrongly estimated to cost 19,500 crores of rupees. This was later on revised to cost 45,000 crores, whereas it would actually cost Rs 60,000 crores of rupees and would take up to 20 -25 years to be completed. Instead of this, there are cost effective and more efficient transit systems of Skybus and BRTS available, which should have been the first option for improving the existing transport systems as they have lost cost of construction as well as short period of implementation.
It was recognised that the National Urban Transport Policy was progressive, but the process by which it was evolved was not democratic. It was identified that it must be a countrywide demand that all mega projects must be implemented by the procedure laid down in the Nagarpalika Act, and for this the laggard implementation of its progressive features (especially that of Metropolitan/District Planning Committees) must become a condition for State and Central support for urban infrastructure projects.
Overall, no project should be rushed through on reactionary grounds, especially projects like Metro which would consume enormous funds and take decades to complete, without due public participation in their decision-making as laid down in the Town and Country Planning Act, Nagarpalika Act, and various other laws and policies.
It was also recognised that the rights of pavements vendors and street dwellers was being snuffed out despite such actions violating Supreme Court directives and national policies. The particular disregard for bastis of the poor when large projects are developed was condemned.
Man in blue shirt: This development that is happening... which is neo liberal... the development through violence is for development or is development for the developed people ... this development is for those who are developed this thing is clear many times... it's clear since morning. It can be about the 19000 crore for the metro railways in Mumbai but... like... Dr Manami told that the expenses are going to be around 60,000 crores in which even 1,50,000 people can't travel then why is this needed that is because... Firstly this city wants to make a role model... like we should be like Shanghai or there was a talk on (?).
Delhi Metro Rail Corporation(DMRC)
Relaxations and Subsidies
Man in blue shirt: About Delhi, Ravi bhai put it in a very exact manner that there are no users of the metro line so then why was the metro started. 15 days back I was attending a seminar in Netherlands and there were so many people from China in the seminar that I was wondering whether even in the hotel we were in Netherlands or China. To such an extent China is spread on development... so... there was a professor on academics of the university he said that if we want to fasten the process of development ... if we have to make the people civilized and modern then we need private ownership of housing is very necessary... that means how many ever houses are there... there was win-fair housing...in China...this is the biggest role of the government to allot them houses.
Man in Blue Shirt: They could be big cites or small cities... now it's being said that if we want to become civilized if we want to become modern, housing should become private . The question arises that if we want to become modern and if we want to become civilized then the metro is our role model and it's good to speak less about Delhi because the attitude of the middle classes towards the poor, their emotionality and displeasure towards them is very weird and which has come out in the Supreme Court judgement as well that if a poor person takes a land which is not owned by him it's considered pick pocketing and he's a thief which is government's statement. So actually the poor don't see from here to there... the role model in Delhi ... they are being moved from here to there. I went to a colony in Delhi ,Savla Ghenua(?) From Rohini it's 35km away from the electro metre distance... and they way those poor people are treated like in Mankhurd, Malvani and Dindoshi in Mumbai.
Man in Blue Shirt: So the biggest question arises what is the share of the poor in this development? There... the houses... the light of... the development of the roads that was happening... So the people who would come to ROW... there is no provision of rehabilitation for the that is the situation in Delhi . Saldanha Sir also put forward the same point that ... the second question that arises that is in this development...the politics of this development... why is this politics there? it's interwoven with (?)arrangement and people and this arrangement ,it plays a role in this type of development... which is happening in the name of the metro. About Bangalore, Saldanha sir spoke in details about the technicalities and that such projects aren't sustainable projects... in this way the environment (?) and the middle class face the biggest problem in Bangalore, even today people want to make their own single houses... want to make independent houses and the encroachment that has happened on people's lands in rural Bangalore is an eye opener.
Man in blue shirt: In this country where there is a problem about the 2 meals a day for about 50% of the population where half the population is worried about the food security... in that country talking about metro's and 60,000 crore projects is for talking about those people who are already developed and it's their development. So these two points (?) put across everything clearly is there sometime for discussion or should we proceed to lunch...
Off screen: We can take 2-3 question's in 10 minutes.
Man in blue shirt: As we are running short of time i will request you'll to ask a question or pass your comment in the shortest possible duration , we can take 2-3 questions. Please stand up and introduce yourself and ask a question in brief.
Shukla: Mr Ravi said that the Delhi metro has been kept on the lines of a model, when it was after Hyderabad... Delhi metro is a public sector undertaking... the Hyderabad metro is a public private partnership. Mr Shridharan was kept as a consultant in Hyderabad he gave a report against it and was thrown out .So the Delhi metro didn't become a model for the Hyderabad. If you still think that it is a model, then tips about that. Secondly, you said that this is a serious issue when Delhi metro was made while it was being made it didn't hurt the poor or the rich when we talk about Hyderabad or Bangalore the people are getting hurt. When we are talking about Mumbai, the metro yard that is being made people will be thrown out from that place. According to this How did the Delhi metro become a model please comment ?
C. Ramchandriah : Can they prove that the route in which they've designed the metros will not have many passengers. So that we start experimenting right now(?)
Rajinder Ravi : You're two questions. First that im Delhi the poor or the rich weren't hurt but when the government wants to make a role model they want to save themselves from conflicts. In Delhi the selection that they made what I told you... one thing is that what is seen, whether they got affected or not and secondly what are the indirect effects of it. People oppose direct effects and it's opposed after going very far and understanding a lot. Like now the poor people in India are the most affected by the climate but they are worried more about some factory is built there what will happen to our lands and will stand against the person and not the climate
Rajinder Ravi: Similarly when the land was being selected during the construction of Delhi metro, where the foundation stone was being kept it was the land on the banks of the river Yamuna, the (?) which were there it was a role model for them... there were so many plants ans so many deaths during the building of the Delhi metro there was not even 5% of that in a kilometre ... nothing happened in BRTS corridor but the prayavak vadi's didn't make the issue of plaque removal against the metro but many of our associates.Who work with us they did a hunger strike against the BRTS corridor . So the first and the second corridor in that there was no mass eviction due to which there could be a protest.
Rajinder Ravi: You gave an example of Hyderabad, the work of the Delhi metro was to tell the project , their pr system is so strong and now giving bribes in every corporate consultancy has become legal. It's a part of consultancy that how the media has to be convinced... the other of a bogey is a big event... if the bogey is being loaded into a ship in Korea it's a big event... when it comes to Delhi it's a big event. So they manipulate the media to increase their project but those who can harm their project they are being stopped. I am not saying that the BRT is too good or the metro is too bad, I am just saying that if the BRT is to be stopped or the better infrastructure that is coming in which are cheaper and they have to be stopped. In that also they are very capable. As per my knowledge about Hyderabad which C. Ramchandriah will talk.
C. Ramchandriah : When you asked about Hyderabad ... that Sreedharan... was there on the government and here they have public private partnership....
Off screen: My question was has Delhi metro acted as a model for Hyderabad?
C. Ramchandriah: Delhi metro has been used as a model in every city ... as a technological model, as a model for image building, as a model for solution of public transport. The ownership model is it of a government model or public- private partnership is the difference. Now Sreedharan has been a part of the Hyderabad project as a BPP from day 1.he was not like... thrown out... Sreedharan has been thrown as a consultant... that's what you meant why was he thrown?
Off screen: I said he had given a report opposing the Hyderabad project and as a result has been dismissed...
C. Ramchandriah : He has given a report to whom?... no... the reason Sreedharan withdrawing from the Hyderabad report... Hyderabad metro... let me tell you he was a prime consultant from day 1 till the even the pits were opened. What happened is... something happened inside the government where there was a favouritism to give the contract to Mehta's company,even before the pits were opened.Here was a quarrel, inside then as the consequences of Mehtas coming to finance 100% without viability and funding. Sreedharan was keeping quiet, he didn't criticise the pits... pitting... pits were reopened. The DMRC representatives are there, we should... concerned citizens and hypocritical plan. Why I am saying this is when central government planning commission, deputy chairman Montek Singh said for all metro rail policies in other cities , we will follow other work pattern , we will not give any viability cap funding and suddenly citizens say how will we get money in such conditions.
C. Ramachandriah: If the central government doesn't give the viability cap funding who will make a private park in Cochin. Then he wrote to the deputy chairman of the planning commission on 11th September 2008 that if you change your policies like that
... in the way you had opposition in Hyderabad... it is difficult to get it in every city . In every city there is no land in the surroundings that they can give in the state board. Then he also made a statement that the Mehta's have been favoured,then have been sectioned, it can become a political scam... future. So he didn't submit any reports and submitted a letter to Montek Singh which was published on the front page in the Economic Times on 21st September. Ten days after that... next day we reproduced it in AP prominently in the front pages of 2 newspapers (?) that became a huge scandal and it gave us a lot more credibility to use Sreedharan's letter against the project again as a strategy.
Off screen : I just wanted to put forward the 3 points ...
Man in Blue shirt: We will continue after lunch... you'll can solve it during lunch.
Saldhana sir do you have anything to say.
Leo Saldanha: The question of alignment in Bangalore or alignments in metropolitan cities and the Bangalore alignment has always been contested both from the point of view of viability... and viability because the alignment of the so chosen, according to DMRC
was made consulting and most of the people who work in DMRC don't have a acute understanding of Bangalore. The graphic studies and the type of mobility studies they did... if you look at their DBR, the statistics is something that even undergrad level students would not consider to be sufficient but it was done unfortunately by HCAR... most of the statistics that are done... most of the data's are not available.But if you would just assume that by talking to 2000 people you can design a mega city project like this. A mega project like this... I think there is something basically wrong with that. As I said (?)another coax was not enough to be appraisals of such a big decision... that said AMRC looking at the structure of the city had tried to develop the project based on accessibility to public lands.
Leo Saldanha: Presuming public lands and also park lands, streets, hawking zones and so on except in the core city areas and those underground... largely to protect the government buildings and the rest of the area it is difficult. Except one station which is at grade i.e on the surface, all the other stations are elevated or below the ground. What is the big problem of the alignment in Bangalore is that besides the attribution of encroachment of public lands... which is another challenge actually. The project is not seen as almost a complete project. So if we look at the alignment today and their own statistics of the rider ship , you will find that by shifting their right man where people... local communities have proposed a much more densely crowded areas... in fact one of the biggest demands in Bangalore is not that metro should be there , the (?) should go where potential development of the metro is not effective.
Leo Saldanha: For instance, one of the criticisms in the Eastern corridor... east west corridor and that the eastern corridor actually goes through a densely crowded neighbourhood where the metro claims 2 right angles in less then 1 km, so potentially the metro slows down. If your taking the speed of the train , a 3 car or 6 car train to be of 40 - 50 km it has to speed up and slow down , that means your actually speeding up and slowing down a system which one... uses electricity one of the purest forms of energy , expensive for which metro has asked for exemption... in fact they have asked for a rate of Rs. 2.20 /kilowatt much lower then what we pay... we pay about Rs. 5/kilowatt to import electricity . If that's the kind of subsidy you give to the Metro plans obviously you can make it seem viable but it is not, somebody else will pay this cost. But at the time you design the metro alignment then you are obviously not only increasing the energy cost. Assuming your taking it to governed neighbourhoods(?) your increasing the impact in terms of pollution ... noise pollution and more importantly the capital cost which is given as a one time investment will become a recurring cost.
Leo Saldanha: Because this system will tend to break down much sooner then otherwise. So one of our biggest argument for alignment is that most of the alignment is zigzag. In fact scholars told the swastika pattern for the detailed(?) scheme. There is one point in the (?) of Los Angeles where the swastika has failed. For an aerial city the swastika does not work... the fact that if you have to travel to a metro line it is assumed that within 250 metres of the line if you (?) you can use the metro. But the rider ship walk... walks more then a quarter km by almost half and it is more then 1 km another square km from the station to park and it is unlikely that you will use the metro, you will use a vehicle or a bus which comes, leaves and (?). So the other major problem of Bangalore is that the metro stations have not... don't have any plan for parking zones except where government lands are available and almost all government lands and all government lands are actually park zones in Bangalore except one area which was a new government allocate funding,this is the problem with government land.
Leo Saldanha:Then the other problem with government land is that governments lands is also places which poor people have encroached long time. So two large slums which are being razed completely are actually on so called government lands. This could have been eight lands or common lands but since they come under the control of the government land... government... under the government department , they are transferred almost without cost to metro project so it becomes a form of subsidy . I don't think metro land in Bangalore will be following logical line of going through areas where the rider ship is high it is more the path of lead... least resistance which is being found.(Applause).
Man in blue shirt: Thank you Saldanha... thank you to both the speakers that they shared their thoughts with us. I would like to thank Roshini Manch Thank you to every body for listening to everybody peacefully and with this the session ends here.
( A board saying our house will be here the metro yard wont be built .)
Man in peach kurta : We will start now it will be nice if you'll can sing after me ...
Man in peach kurta : Comrades we salute you.( Audience repeats the song).(twice).
Man in peach kurta: The freedom of this country is calling you (thrice).
Audiences repeats thrice).
Man in peach kurta: The caste, religion are giving out cries . If you accept independence break these barriers.Everybody here should take the pledge. The reigns of the country are in your hands,The reigns of the country is in our hands. (Audience repeats).Comrades we salute you. (twice). The society is blinded you should cure it.The lit fire is burnt out you should fuel it with your blood, the country will be alive again and all the Indians would rejoice. There is a voice in the world ,there is a cry in the world. The reigns of the country are in your hands (Audience repeats). The reigns of the country are in our hands.(Audience repeats).Comrades we salute you.(Audience repeats). Comrades we salute you,salute, salute.(Audience repeats). Bravo.(Applause).
Medha Patkar: We'll fight, we'll win.
Audience repeats the slogan (twice).
Medha Patkar: This country is ours .
Off screen: It doesn't belong to somebody else.
Simpreet Singh: Thank you , Sanjay bhai... after the songs post lunch every body must be alert... there is an arrangement of tea in a while . So to move ahead with today's function I would request Bhosleji to come on the stage and start the second session . After the presentation in Delhi, Hyderabad and Bangalore now it's the turn of Mumbai... So from Mumbai (?) specialists and has been a member of the government's committee but he is always connected to people... Sudhir Badamiji please come on stage. He's a representative of Metro Rail Yard Hatao Abhiyan and is representating the slum dwellers
Mr Tiwari. I would request him to come on the stage and alongside specially here from Chennai youth associate Venkat to come on the stage. Before moving ahead I would like Sudhir Badami to come on the stage and give his presentation .
Sudhir Badami: I am going to tell you about things using imagery so you may like it. Whatever has been spoken (?) this presentation is the need of it .
This presentation is about remedy needed for the problem of transportation. Firstly I will show you'll a good place in Mumbai when you see it you will feel relaxed. After that I will give knowledge about global warming in a minute and a few things when we move forward... See the roads of Mumbai ... this is a place on chowpatty it looks beautiful... there are not many cars and then ... this is in IIT Powai, you will feel that there is no crowd in Mumbai... many a times it's not there but when we decide a remedy for traffic in then there will automatically be a less crowd .this is taken in the morning, roads... there is always a crowd, even cows and buffaloes go over here this road goes to Malabar Hill. The idea behind showing these images that you should get such facilities... we have to demand... in every place in Mumbai. Many a times it's not done... Hutatma Chowk in Fountain... it's a very beautiful scene... if you wait for 2 minutes and wait it looks very beautiful. On Marine Drive when the plants hadn't grown ... this is near my house at Babulnath ... there is a temple nearby... this has reversed i don't even know.
Sudhir Badami: This is near my house... see there are many trees in Mumbai... this is at Churchgate... everything in South Mumbai has been done very well... this is near fountain. This Gulmohur looks good but it spoils the footpath on one side... this scene is of Marine Drive... this is a traffic island in Tardeo it's done up very beautifully... this is on the airport... it's not for the handicapped but for taking luggage. Such things should be every where... this is on Peddar Road... the traffic... in the morning the trucks are going towards the temple maybe... Now we will come to know if Mumbai is good or bad but I've not shown the bad things over here. This in Delhi around a college just see how beautifully the footpath is made... we don't have good footpaths we should make such footpaths because 47% people in Mumbai walk... about this we have to make a noise... when people blow a horn we should say that we don't want a horn.
Sudhir Badami : What is Global Warming ? When the heat increases the seawater gets evaporated and they become clouds and when the sun rays get absorbed and if the layer increases most of the rays don't pass through because of which you get heavy rains and we know what happened in 2005.In August 2005, Katrina took place and last year Myanmar experienced heavy rains. It's all about climate change so maybe it will or wont happen this year... don't now we can't say because this can be due to climate change. I will tell you a short story... An experiment was carried out, where 5 monkeys were kept in a cage on a distance a few bananas were kept and monkey will be monkeys... So one of them climbs up... cold water is poured on the remaining four... so what happened... these four... they felt that when a monkey goes up cold water so going to fall on the rest which is going to cause inconvenience to the rest. So they ran and started beating up the public that was there.
Sudhir Badami: And because of beating up, henceforth no monkey had the greed to climb up. Next. After that what happened was they changed one monkey/ So that monkey felt, 'Okay, even I will climb up. When he started climbing.. next one.. so then even he was beaten up. So then another new monkey came. So then even he was beaten up. A third one came and even he was beaten up. A fifth one came and even he was beaten up. None of this experienced.. did not feel that of water... they never felt the cold water that was showered on them. So if you asked them, that what is this? Why are you not taking the banana? Then they will probably say that, 'The tradition is like this. The tradition has been going on. We do not take the bananas. They should not be taken. That's it. This is the ongoing tradition.' This is the way things go on in our country and society. If you ask anyone that why is this the tradition then they will say, 'It has been going on this way for centuries. This should be continued.' But this change should happen. Now in our rail itself, we feel that railways are the best for urban transport. But this is not true. Now BRTS, Bus Rapid Transit System that is there, that too shows such things.
Sudhir Badami: What is BRTS? If there is any traffic, there are different kinds of vehicles in it- there are rails, there are handcarts, there are motorcycles, there are buses, and there are cars. When these vehicles move, the one which moves the slowest stops the rest. And hence, the speed becomes very less. Hence when we separate these vehicles, their speed then increases. Next one... Suppose you separate the buses, which has a lot of people, and the cars which are there which carry 2-4 people, if you separate them, then a lot more people can travel. Its capacity increases a lot. And this thing which is there, we call it 'Bus Rapid Transit System'. It has the capacity to carry the maximum passengers in a bus.
BRTS(Bus Rapid Transport System)
Sudhir Badami: Our buses are like this...these are of Mumbai. This is a signal bus, this probably used to run as BRTS. It is a foreign bus. Look at its level here, it is high. This too is high. And look at the one ahead here, this too is high. This is called articulated. This is one joint. It is long it has a trailer behind it. And this..this is below..floor taking. It has two floors. Here there are two joints. There is a fire regulator. It's capacity is also more. The capacity of bi-articulated is ...almost 250 people can go in this bus. From inside it's like this.. the way Metro trains are.. Now look it's platform...the platform of a bus...the floor of the bus and this platform is of one level itself. Look here and look there. What happens is, there is place to walk. One can go in easily. It has been done in another way. And there is this city in South America called Bogota there the buses of BRTS are working efficiently. The cars can get jammed a bit but the people get a lot of facilities of going by bus.
Sudhir Badami: Here there are two entries for the bus stop. There is one more city in South America called Sao Paolo. They give the tickets before itself. Probably now in Mumbai you must have removed Rs. 15/- or Rs. 20/- tickets. There is such a facility. There are passes in trains of this kind. These are of China. Even in China there are these kind of buses. These are Feeder buses. The buses in this system come from your house to here and from here we can take another bus. Changing buses can also be inconvenient. And the speed of the buses.. not speed.. the frequency that is there, per minute, every one minute, three buses come. That can happen.
Sudhir Badami: Okay, one more thing I would want to say is, which are here, sky bus. It is not currently here. And probably it may not come. I want to show it a bit. One use of it is there. This has been made in Konkan in Madgaon. This is the coach. And this vehicle runs here like this. From here it is suspended. And this is the test track in Goa, it has been tested here. It goes straight like this I have a film, I can show it to you. Here too the floor is very wide. And people can sit very quickly and leave quickly too. See... there is a picture here where it is shown how the BRTS sky bus travels... in Mumbai here... we saw in the 2005 crowds people were walking in the water... that can be bought brought up on those structure.
Sudhir Badami: Now this breadth from here to there is as wide as the Marine Drive footpath. So what happens when it rains heavily and if were have to travel then we can even walk on this. In BRTS we get such lanes so when it rains and there is a traffic jam and we get lane where people can travel in buses when the cars get jammed. If we talk about Mono- rail I will show you ... it's in Singapore and America and it's told that is going to come to Mumbai .The designs have been fixed and these routes are of Mumbai. So, leaving this aside we will go back to metro. When we are talking about the Metro of Mumbai the line is 146.5 km of the Mumbai Metro, so in that there are three parts wherein Phase I... in every phase there are 3 lines ... One line is from Versova, Andheri to Ghatkopar, the second phase is from Charkop to Mankhurd and the third line is going to go to Colaba and the forth line goes there and the fifth... in total 146.
Sudhir Badami: In South Mumbai around 40 km is underground the rest is on ground level. Now the question arises...the Charkop area many people don't know that there is a problem here... they are making a car shed here and where... yes, Laljipada... they are thinking of making it there... you all know a lot about it... many people want to stay a lot about it... they can say it briefly because I am talking about the technical aspects of it. The government is saying that the cost of the project is around 19525 for about 6 months but when they revised it they said around 38000 but according to me it is more then 60,000 crore... this is a lot of injustice because it's not needed and there is no need for such expenses, that's one thing. Secondly, where will they get so much money to make it. When they will try to extract money... it will take a lot of time to extract so much money and it will take around 20-25 years to be completed and one line will come into existence slowly.
Sudhir Badami: We have to keep one thing in mind... there are at least 47% people in Mumbai ,who walk and travel on cycles. Many people from here are included in this, Only 11% people travel in cars, 16% in buses and 3% in taxi's... and 23% in Railway cars. if we look at everything maximum no of people travel by foot and for them and us there are no proper footpaths... which we need... for which footpaths are to be made and to go a little far... BRTS or such kinds of buses... such a facility should be there not metro. The metro will take 20-25 years to be made whereas the BRTS buses an be made completely in 3-5 years. 57% of the people working in Mumbai till 3 kms and 69% within 5 kms and 51% within 10 kms and 89%work within 15kms. only 11% work above 15kms , still we need transport so we reach soon and there is no discomfort. The figures in Delhi are also similar so, it's not a big difference.
Sudhir Badami: So now please see carefully what I want to show you'll .Now, see for Mumbai, the metro that has been planned... the metro in total is 146... and the cost of Rs.415cr/km and it's capacity for each line is 36,000... initially it's 24,000 then will become 36,000 keep this in mind. On the elevated line it will be Rs.205cr/km and underground line will cost around 1000. if we see the cost of BRTS it's only Rs15cr/km this should be kept in mind and it's capacity is 45,000 because even mono has been done that way. Now the Mono rail that is coming the cost is Rs.125 cr/km and the sky bus I was talking about that is around 75 and the capacity... when I talk about the capacity for mono rail it will be 10000, for sky bus it will be 18000 and can be extended till 45000. Now what does Mumbai need? This should also be kept in mind... Mumbai needs a public transport with the capacity of 1,80,000. The crowd in the trains is around 3,50,000 per hour where the capacity of trains is 1,80,000. So we need to get a capacity of 1,80,000, how we get this and how fast because every year 4000 people fall to their death from the trains.
Sudhir Badami: If we want to reduce this we need to get BRTS because only that can be bought at the earliest... it can be bought in at the earliest and the cot is also very low. So our government does have 30,000cr, not 60,000cr but we have 30,000cr that is why we should demand BRTS and we have to remind the government all the time. Through media let the remaining work keep going on... but get BRTS because if we see... the Chief Minister and the MMRDA Chief told us that the monorail is coming, that can be seen properly. Metro rail is coming it feels good but what is needed is necessary to be brought... that is why I say that BRTS is necessary. And over here metro will take 20-25 years, BRTS 3-5 years and Monorail will take 5 years and sky bus will take 5 years. So I have said all this and we have to keep this in mind. We have to get a lot from the government we just can't oppose metro because those who want to make it will go ahead but when we want the facility... the facility will come... maybe the metro wont come.
Sudhir Badami: But you'll are going to face inconvenience because they are thinking of building a rail shed. So there will be displacement. the problem of displacement is only different, now that you have an alternative, so there is one more thing.The way in rails a car shed is needed we need bus depot... only the Western Express Highway and Eastern Express Highway need 600 buses... double(?) bus... so we need a place to keep them, to repair them where will all that come from. That will also be a place like the car shed there is a remedy for that... the remedy is that the Bandra Kurla Complex where the area is empty... it's necessary to be put up there... when we put it there... there wont be any displacement and it's a place from where BRTS buses can come from South Mumbai ,from North Mumbai and even from Navi Mumbai in totality it will be a centre... that should be demanded... the government is think inn that the land price is so high then why should we put it into this. The heart is in the centre if the heart doesn't work then how will the blood flow in the body.
Sudhir Badami: Similarly we have to think of this bus shed as our heart, the transport hub... it's necessary to demand this. So with this I complete my presentation,does anybody have any queries .
Rajinder Ravi : In Mumbai buses are already running then why do you want to bring in BRTS when there are already BEST buses. So then... firstly, what is new in BRTS? If a new city is to be made something new has to be done we should remove BRTS buses and the metro has to be brought in.Secondly, there is a lot of pollution due to auto mobiles and buses to end it the metros are being brought in.Do you think the pollution will end with this?
Sudhir Badami: OK. I will talk about pollution.
Rajinder Ravi: Secondly ,you spoke about the Bagota Model, Bagota is a very small city and a very few people stay there, there is a lot of place. In Mumbai, there is a lack of space then how is it possible here.
Sudhir Badami: Firstly, I will talk about pollution... pollution... what is it? The railway cars run on electricity... what happens to create that we need to make fuel in a different place because of which the quantity of Carbon Dioxide increases and it starts global warming. If we want to reduce global warming and if we use buses per passenger km the bus uses 65 grams/km per passenger and for railways it is per passenger km is said to be about 108/110.So, the level is reduced and in a city like Mumbai the manner in which the wind blows doesn't affect the pollution like it does in Delhi, where the wind doesn't blow like that round the year. Your second question is when the BEST runs in Mumbai... people outside Mumbai think that the public transport is very fine but it is not because if we use BRTS it's capacity will increase and it should be that railways passengers can use this. When they come here the crowd in trains will reduce and people wont fall and the 4000 deaths that happen each year may reduce.that is one thing.
Sudhir Badami: And ... one more question you had... Bagota Model... A system doesn't depend on the city it is independent. The population of Bagota is 70,00,000 and the population here is 120,00,000 or 130,00,000 but we have to keep in mind when I said... only 57% people work within 3 kms from their house and only 11% people work farther then 15kms that means for every person the city is as small as they may travel for work. So if we see their population it's less then Bagota... so it doesn't depend on population when this system works... we think many people travel to South Mumbai yes many come but not every body comes. Only 20 lac people come every day and around Churchgate.They go from D ward to South, So in Mumbai it's not like there is much crowd yet people don't cover the complete distance then the buses run and they run nicely and to reduce railway passengers BRTS is very necessary. He is asking the capacity of the buses,metro or rails... it's called persons per hour per direction.
Sudhir Badami: People per hour in one direction like from North to South, it means he's talking about a lane, one line. This thing is different... the buses that run in Mumbai... I did a count where... near Matunga Circle where 160 buses pass in an hour in the morning and not less then 100 people go in a bus... so if you go to see you can say around 16,000 but it's less then that in the rest of the areas.If we think only about the buses and talk about moving the cars then we need BRTS buses because they will run fast and people will reach soon which is a necessity, but we want to completely reduce the crowd in trains and give facilities to people on the road and if safety is necessary then we will need BRTS
Man in grey pullover : Your expenses of BRTS is less but how you have budgeted that is something hidden. I believe that you believe That for BRTS the current roads can be modified and make the dedicated corridor and be used.If we see towards Mumbai, the Western Express Highway...from north towards Mahim I think his assumption is valid but if we move ahead from Mahim we will face difficulties is what I feel. Similarly if we see the Eastern Express Highway from front to back there will be only problems.So I think the assumption of 15 crore and the use of currents roads these should be thought about .
Sudhir Badami: There is not much problem for Western and Eastern Express highway but is there for the rest of the city but when I'm talking about the 15cr/km , what is the cost of the roads... only 2-3cr/km, it's not much even if we make new roads it wont be much. That is why BRTS is cost effective, infrastructure is not needed and we have to keep in mind that in any city or village there have to be roads. If people have to travel there has to be a road it should be made properly and if BRTS is used the capacity increases and it's brought to use properly.anything else.
Sudhir Badami: If BRTS is pressurized that can be done, it has to be pressurized and when the government is being like this, we have to tell them... We can tell this to the government because it is necessary to put (?).You should put this in your arguments that in BKC... there is a lot of land it should be reclaimed...
Medha Patkar: Did you understand ? 750 acres of BKC were made when all the excess was deposited in the Mithi. Where all the government offices and the Bank branches are there... then why should we not set it there when there is place. They don't want anything in the place that is what he is saying. Don't we agree.(Applause).
Sudhir Badami: Any other question...
Medha Patkar: Now that we are discussing the whole issue is in a frame in which there are two big important issues which should be considered. While talking about any families ethics we should see that from which place are people moving to where?So the first is going from villages to city for whom Navi Mumbai was made. If we take an example of Mumbai, in spite of that Mumbai hasn't been vacated and people haven't shifted to Navi Mumbai .
Medha Patkar: Instead people not only from villages outside but in Mumbai region after 2000 people from rural regions in Maharashtra have come in .So their coming is increasing rapidly, if we don't think about this then how may ever families choices we make we can't stop that. Secondly, inside the city the place of employment, government and market ... specially these 3 except them entertainment, etc. Till these distances aren't reduced and reduction wont be employed till then the question of families wont be solved. So for now only cars and roads and highways are increasing for that there is nothing like that .So the IAS and Big officers should shift to Navi Mumbai because for them Public transport... private transport.