Pila House - Interview with Abdul Bhai of Delhi Darbar Restaurant
Director: Madhusree Dutta
Duration: 00:33:26; Aspect Ratio: 1.333:1; Hue: 23.025; Saturation: 0.262; Lightness: 0.287; Volume: 0.194; Cuts per Minute: 0.299; Words per Minute: 114.579
Summary: This event is an interview is of Abdul Bhai, who works in a restaurant within the precinct of Pila House. His interview is one of a series of three interviews we conducted with various people to recollect the history of the area from the point of view of people who have either lived or worked there, i.e. in some way belonged to that space and were currently associated with some sort of trade in that area.
Pila House a name derived locally from the term Play House, signifies the area adjoining the cluster of cinemas on lower Grant Road to Do Talkies, Kamatipura to Lohar-chawl. It is at the heart of our country’s financial capital a living exposition of an informal economy and couched between some of Bombay’s iconic bazaars it has for ages been an epitomatic public space. Contrary to my earlier perception of being either a rundown or down-market business establishment, Pila house in its varied forms, is an effervescent markets uniquely tailored for the needs of its various consumers. The physicality of space hides more than it reveals but with a little effort one stumbles upon a vast energetic production sector which is feeds into the city’s growing needs. It shifts between the day light hours of tailors, barbers, dentists, photo-studios, household and hardware sales to the neon lit restaurants, and numerous small eateries, cinema halls, pan shops; displaying elements for the script of both a brooding film noir it supports the bustle of a dynamic chain of demand and supply.
I approached Pila House with the intension of unearthing a past, and found a vibrant present. Pila House has had a history of live entertainment, long before Bombay, became synonymous with the entertainment industry. A basic necessity for an ever-present mobile, male dominated bastion of merchants, seamen, labourers, Pila House accommodated entertainment of all varieties and forms. It quite easily accommodates a memory of at least two centuries, and has been the witness to some of the most dramatic changes of our times. At a point when the dancers in Bombay’s local bars were being banned – Pila House seemed like the most appropriate space to reexamine the nexus of the city’s many wares.
Abdul Bhai, a veteran – who perhaps actually saw it all – person who seemed to have spent his entire life growing up there – but he selectively interprets his own memories – tries to appropriate them within a positive contemporary moral framework. His career graph worked up slowly within the eateries in the Pila House. Delhi Darbar is a chain of restaurants. It sells North Indian rich food and famous for its kababs and biriyanis.
Madhu (M): Where do you live Abdul Bhai?
Abdul Bhai (AB): Earlier I used to live here. Now I stay in Andheri.
M: Where in Andheri?
AB: Near about Jamat Khana.
M: Where are you basically from?
AB: I am from UP.
M: How did you come to Bombay? Did your father come here?
AB: No our father did not come. He came long back when railways were not there. In British era they landed here. Sometimes he used to be angry with us as we used to say that we will go to Mumbai. It just takes 3 days to reach Mumbai. We were just 12-13 years old and we used to wonder what this Bombay is all about? Let's go and see it. It cost us 16rs for the ticket.
M: So what did you feel after coming to Mumbai?
AB: Came to Bombay, worked and used to get 15ruppes as wages. Cleaned tables. Then stood on tables, earned 30 rupees, then started selling lassi - earned 45. In this way work progressed because of Allah's blessings.
M: So were you working in this area right from the start?
AB: Yes.
M: How was this place earlier?
AB: In olden days, people used to get scared by the very mention of the place. By four in the evening if we would ask any ghodawala (horse drawn carriage) to go to Tardeo, he would just refuse. Haji Ali is very far. We used to have trams, just like today's local trains and in that we could travel, visit to museums and other places and return.
Andheri
Haji Ali
Pila House, Grant Road
Tardeo
UP
british rule
curiosity
entertainment
haji ali
localities
migration
mumbai
occupation
pila house
play house
railways
restaurant
shifting
survival
tardeo
trams
transportation
unskilled labour
wage
Faulkland Road, Mumbai
Among the varied jobs, industries and identities that have flowed and ebbed one very significant is the Photo-studios, very few of which still remain.
A colourful space where one could get a photograph made with the latest superstar.
This interview was conducted in one such photo-studio, as we needed a quiet space in the vicinity to interview Abdul Bhai. The studio floor was already free as all the equipment had been sold off.
There are three remaining on the main road (Grant Road) opposite Nishant cinema. And one opposite Gulshan cinema which does superimposition jobs with film-stars against painted backdrops. The shops on Grant Road are all about 4 ft / 6 ft on the outside have small studios inside. One of the oldest photo-studios in the area was next to Super on Grant Road built in 1932 and has recently shut down. It has a medium size floor inside of about 10 ft / 15 ft with a painted backdrop and lots of old hand coloured portraits.
Yusuf Bhai the current owner lives in Colaba, has another studio in Girgam Chowpatty called New Sagar Studios (near the Sukh Sagar Chain) there they also sells clothes and gift items.
M: Pila House had great importance in the past, right?
AB: More than the past it is now that pila house has got all the life.
M: How was pila house in the past?
AB: Earlier there were not many good people residing here. They were all mawalis (goons). The place was occupied by people from Rampur - Pathans etc.,
M: What occupation did they pursue? Why did they come here?
AB: Nobody was our friends. The hotel was owned by people from Delhi. They asked us to work and so we are here now. Now they are no more there. Then the hotel was taken over by somebody else.
M: So this Delhi Durbar is the first ever one in Bombay right? The rest came later?
AB: Oh Yes. The rest came later. The owner who first owned the hotel was from Amroha in Delhi. It falls in the outskirts of Delhi. They were four brothers and they are the founders of Delhi Durbar.
Now it is bought by somebody else. Yet the name remains the same – Delhi Durbar. Initially only sweets, milk, curd and lassi were sold. In the past few actors used to come, they used to shoot in Jyoti Studio they used to have breakfast here. The hotel used to open at 5am now it opens at 11am.
M: Oh that means you would have seen a lot of people from the theatre and film world?
AB: Oh yes. In New Roshan and Gulshan talkies, Seth Muktar, junior Mehmood used to come when their films used to be screened. Everything seems to be the same even now. Yes in the past the road was called Faulkland road and now it is called Vithal Bhai Patel road.
M: So don't you observe a change? Didn't the change in the name bring any change?
AB: Not at all. This building was called Daruwala Building, belonged to Parsee man. Now it is owned by a Punjabi who owns both the building and the hotel.
M: Parsee people owned lot of property in these areas in the past right?
AB: Oh quite a lot. Parsee people had a great say. The Grant road was full of Parsees. They were so merciful that if in winters they would come across a poor man trembling in cold they would immediately give him a blanket and drive away. But these poor people were also idiots - they see the blanket they would go and sell it in Chor bazaar. Why should I lie, Parsees were really nice people.
Amroha
Chor Bazaar
Delhi
Pila House, Grant Road
Rampur
Vithal Bhai Patel road
change
class distinction
delhi darbar
entertainment
films
generous
goons
grant road
gulshan talkies
hotels
migration
mumbai
occupation
ownership
parsee
pila house
play house
roshan talkies
talkies
theater
transition
unskilled labour
M: In this documentary that we are making, we are trying to understand the transitions in Bombay from your time to our time. Like you know Pila House is not an ordinary place. It's a place which had art….
AB: Like I told you there were people from Rampur, there were Pathans who used to be the goons here. Lot of violence used to happen, there were gambling houses, all these were there…that's what world is about. But all these places are closed now. Now we just come across good people here.
M: Chacha why is this place called Pila House?
AB: This name is very old name. I do not know why it is called so but the place is called so from very long. Pila House, Grant Road, Bombay-4.
M: Is the place's glamour because of the cinema halls?
AB: When the theatres (drama) closed down then it was just film and film everywhere. All these place Daulat talkies, Alankar, were all theatres (drama stage). We used to sleep in the balcony, during the rainy season. Why should I lie? Now the place is a lot better.
M: In which sense?
AB: In the past if you are the boss from a different locality and if we told you that we work in Pila House then you would give us a penny and tell us please go back we do not have any work for you. This place was so dangerous.
M: Because the place was filled with goons- is it?
AB: Yes. Nobody would dare to stay here.
M: Then how was it not difficult for a person to live here?
AB: There was no choice. We had to stay. If you are nice to me then am nice to you. If you are angry so will I be. I sit in the counter and I come across different kinds of people. Sometimes if I get yelled at I have to be rude to them and sometime when the mistake is mine I will have to accept it.
When we started the research on Pila House my colleague, Renu Sawant and I were looking for a source who could recount for us the history of this space from his point of view. Someone who would literally have spent a lifetime here and seen it all with his own eyes.
In the first few days the people we mostly encountered were youth or people who had come fairly recently, who ran the various businesses or worked as hired labour around the theaters and restaurants.
One day as we sat comparing our notes over a quick lunch of Delhi Darbar's biryani our eyes fell on Abdul Bhai.
He was sitting quietly at the counter gazing into the street. Though he was not very chatty at first, he ultimately agreed for an interview. In the process of this interview he traces his journey from when he was a young boy and how he gradually rose in the ranks to set himself up in the city. His story is an emblematic of millions of others like him and bears special significance in that regard. But I still cannot make up my mind whether Abdul bhai was a reluctant interviewee or was shy of the camera or that was just his style of speaking. But it is clear is that he would say only what he wished to say irrespective of what was the question.
Another element which we used during the interview was the backdrop. Sourced from Rehman Bhai's studio from across the street (behind Alfred Talkies.)
Rehman Bhai is one of the last surviving legends of hand painted film hoardings.
Pila House, Grant Road
Rampur
change cinema halls
demographic isolation
films
ghetto
glamour
goons
grant road
importance
mumbai
pila house
play house
significance
stereotype
talkies
transition
In the memory and vocabulary of Abdul Bhai the plays and B/W cinema as well the bazaars and the red light area overlap and disrupt the linear history. When asked about the surrounding wholesale bazaars (Kanda Batata Bazzar, Null Bazzar, Bhedi Bazzar etc.) Which caused much of the floating population to come to the area, he ends up talking about how the area was infamous due to the presence of red light area. One reason could be the Hindi term 'Bazaaru aurat' means women of the market – for the sex workers. What comes out is that the bazaars and red light area are integrally linked or the flesh trade is part of the hard core business trade. Another interesting thing is that the gentry of the area had opposed the proposal to close down the outlets of prostitution on the ground that their women would be harassed on the street in absence of the prostitutes. This provides an interesting point of contemplation for studies in sexuality and class.
M: So what kinds of plays would be staged in those days?
AB: They were Shirin Farhad, Laila Majnu, Bama Khusro; all these three theatres had Urdu plays running for weeks.
On this Gulshan talkie there was a huge factory in the past…but now….even the name of the building has changed from Daruwala building to Jamil Akhtar Baigh.
M: So what kind of people used to come to watch the theatre? We also heard that there were a lot of markets here?
AB: Yes there were a lot of them in the past. Now they are closed. This place will not fetch a single penny.
M: Where did the markets go?
AB: All of them left. They sold all that they had. With changing government policies they vanished.
M: What I am trying to understand is how can markets vanish? People require markets?
AB: The area ahead of Pila House had lots of markets. There was no problem for people to travel through the lane also. There were trams also for their convenience, they had double tracks.
M: What kinds of markets were they? They definitely were not the kinds that we see now right? Do you remember?
AB: The markets were not like the ones that exist now. They were all wide and open. If a decent man walks across then he will have to be subjugated to a lot of insult because people would blame saying is this the place to roam about?
M: So what was the problem?
AB: There were a lot of prostitutes in the lane. Now it is not that way.
M: Yes. True. Even in Kamatipura there are not many of them now. Why is it so chacha?
AB: Kamatipura. You can say that it is finished as well as not finished. There were lots of girls from Nepal who were involved in prostitution. During Nehru's reign he had asked to close down these markets.
But there were lot of rich businessmen who opposed and said if you close down these shops then it will be difficult for our sisters and mothers to step out. Else these would have been shut during Nehru chacha's reign itself.
Kamatipura
Nepal
Pila House, Grant Road
ban
bazaar
change
class
commercial sex work
entertainment
flesh trade
gentrification
human trafficking
isolation
kamathipura
market
migrants
moral policing
morality
mumbai
nehru
nepal
pila house
play house
policies
population
prejudice
prohibition
prostitution
red light area
sexuality
social pressure
talkies
theater
urdu
M: What happened then?
AB: Then the rest is the way that you can see at present.
M: But the glory that this place carried no longer remains?
AB: From where will that come? The entire area used to be lit up and they used to stand. Now it's not the same anymore. It's all done illegally now. There are 10-15 houses and a few buildings like that even now and they continue with their profession. People do try to send them away. All the places down are already bought by businessmen – few sell clothes, few make some things but behind all these prostitution still prevails.
M: What is the background of these girls?
AB: Oh from generations they pursue this as their career.
M: Do they belong to tawaif's families?
AB: They are all from tawaif families and are here right from the British time.
M: But Abdul Bhai everything has a history behind and it is essential to know about human beings in order to trace history. We as today's generation would like to trace that through you. It is interesting to see that how people come and go, which seems to be a very interesting factor of any big city. For instance am from Bengal, he is from UP, somebody is from Kerala…
AB: In the past these bazaars had lot of Kanada people. They were called Kamatis. Later with changes, with time, because of fate, or because of necessity they ended up in this profession.
M: Could you tell us what kind of people were there in these markets initially and how it changed gradually.
AB: There was an inspector who came from Kanada. He came to know about these girls and he took all these girls in his vehicle. Then he got a few married, sent a few to their homeland, in this way their number reduced considerably. But even to this day its kamatis who do lot of this work.
M: But Kamatis are also involved in building construction work also right? I mean even the men are called Kamatis right?
AB: They are different from these kamatis.
Now it has become the job that they have been carrying from generations. They earn money, send it to their homes, and construct buildings all these they do now. But the girls from Nepal came because of some necessity.
The residents of any red light area are always migrants. A part of it is because of the common belief that 'our' girls don't get into prostitution. So it is important to believe that the local sex workers are from 'outside'. But it is also a fact that many of the sex workers would prefer to work in a place far away from their homes. In that sense the sex workers are likely to be migrants.
Another thing which is clear from the words of Abdul Bhai is that the red light area of Kamatipura has got cleansed recently with the waves of gentrification. Actually the area came under severe surveillance after the social and political outcry over the spread of aids. The semi organized flesh trade then got disintegrated and spread in small units all over the city. If we agreed to acknowledge it as an industry then this development could be termed as a decline of organized sector.
The stories of cleansing in urban lores are always associated with some upright police officers. Here one police officers arrested the sex workers and got them married in order put them back in the mainstream. We hear a similar story about a police officer who stooped the illegal country liquor business (Daru Bhattis) in Dharavi.
Bengal
Dharavi
Kamatipura
Karnataka
Kerala
Nepal
Pila House, Grant Road
Uttar Pradesh
aids
background
british rule
change
class
cleansing
commercial sex work
entertainment
epidemic
family tradition
generational
gentrification
historical significance
human trafficking
identity
illegal
illegitimate
kamathipura
kamathis
ligalisation
mapping
marriage
migrant
mumbai
organized sector
outsider
peripheral
pila house
play house
police officer
prostitution
public place
raid
red light area
sexuality
social values
taboo
tawaif
tracing
unauthorized
unorganized sector
M: So what kind of people would come to watch cinemas here?
AB: All kinds of people. All kinds of men. On a Sunday if you don't find a man then you will definitely find him in Pila House. Whether he is decent or indecent on Sundays one would definitely find them in Pila House.
M: Why, what used to happen here?
AB: They used to come to roam about, see pictures, dramas, roam around in the markets etc.
M: We have heard that people from other countries visited this place to carry out trade here? Have you seen it? Like the Arabs?
AB: No. I don't know. Well Arabs do come even now. But they don't come to visit or roam around in this place.
M: Is there a change in the dialect of people?
AB: Yes. Nothing remains now. The kind of language that was used in the past no longer exists.
M: What kind?
AB: For instance, if you cross Manik building, then some people would come and would take you to the buildings by force. So any innocent who walks past would be trapped because they did not know what could happen next?
M: What will happen next?
AB: Now it's not like that anymore. Now nobody forces.
M: I apologize for this question – were you taken by force anytime?
AB: No. I used to work till 11 in the night and would go off to sleep. If we roam around and happen to be caught then we would be put in jail for 7 days. If there was nobody to release us on bail then we had to be shut in the lockup. So we would not indulge in these things at all.
Abdul Bhai again uses the word Bazaar as a nomenclature for red light area. In his own oblique way he talks about prostitutions, pimps at work and police raids and yet maintains his moral position.
Kamatipura
Mumbai
Pila House, Grant Road
arabs
arrest
bazaar
business
cinema halls
cultural influence
dialect
entertainment
goons
jail
law and order
market
mumbai
pedestrian
pila house
pimp
play house
police raid
prostitution
red light area
sex work
talkies
trade
M: You deal with the hotel industry, serving food to people, and so while serving even you would have come across different kinds of people.
AB: Oh yes all kinds of people. That was also the time when untouchability prevailed. Now it has come to an end. Now all kinds, all classes of people come to the hotels. There used to be these bhangis (sweepers), there cups, saucers, and glass were all kept aside- outside. If they ask for food they were served in those. Tea was served for an ana and the glasses were washed and again kept aside. Lassi was for 4 anas, now all that has finished and these systems no longer exist. Now you and I eat in the same place. We don't even know who is what.
M: Could you share some nice stories with us or some interesting people that you have come across?
AB: We are here since 1945. We just go to our village during vacations. Then things kept changing. Fares of railways also increased. We used to take a ticket of 16 rupees and now it is not the same.
M: So are you adjusted to Bombay?
AB: Oh yes. Now we will stay here only.
M: So tell me about all these dargahs in these places.
AB: Dargah is there in every talkie.
M: How come?
AB: Earlier this place was a graveyard. The Sonapur masjid which now has so many shops initially was an open area. There used to be urus and mela, jatra for 10 days. The fares had swings, death wells, and shops etc., All kinds of people used to come. Like how people now go to Mahim and Haji Ali for urus.
M: So this was a graveyard?
AB: Yes.
M: Then how did it become a residential area?
AB: Oh that was because gradually people started setting up shops upon shops. Ultimately every human needs money.
Haji Ali, Mumbai
Mahim
Pila House, Grant Road
bhangis
caste system
change
dargahs
hotels
islam
jatras
kabristan (graveyard)
masjid
mela
mumbai
pila house
play house
religion
restaurants
segregation
traditions
un-touchabilty
urus
Belgium
Bengal
Chennai
Kalaghoda
Kamathipura
M: When you came here, lot of people used seaways also for navigation right? The port was in use?
AB: Yes. They used to come, visit, tour around the place and leave. They did not belong to this place.
M: From what places did these people come from?
AB: All places. Bengalis, Madrasis, Marwari etc., Now they pursue good profession. Earlier they used to just sell coconuts, mats, fans etc., now they have big hotels. The lines have changed. There were lots who were ghodawalas (horse or horse carriage drivers), now you can hardly see them. Now there are taxis. Then when number of taxis increased the trams came to an end. 15-16 years back these trams stopped, tram number 10 and 16 used to pass by from here. From Tardeo we used to get number 13. 10 number bus used to go from Mazgaon to Nana Chowk. 16 used to go to museum and Kalaghoda side.
M: Could you tell me in the past this place was popular because of the prostitutes or because of the cinema halls?
AB: There were both cinema halls and theatres. Based on our mood we used to go. There were lot of actors…so public used to crowd in to see them. Sometimes they would go to see films. In those days there were lots of pictures running also. Most of them carried action sequences. Nadia, Baburam Bhagwan these actors did more of action thrillers in those days.
M: Apart from these were women of Kamatipura also?
AB: Oh yes. All were the same. Kamathipura and pila house were the same area.
M: So all the glory of past no more lasts.
AB: Oh it's completely gone.
M: Since when?
AB: In the past 10-12 years it all vanished. Its like just one ana remains in a rupee.
M: Why? What changed?
AB: Oh! Everything changed drastically. Just see how many of these women stand in the streets. Earlier they used to not come down to streets in fear. Now you can see some standing on the streets, earlier this never happened.
M: But lot of them left also?
AB: Yes. Those who wanted to go back to their roots went. But those who had no option or were helpless remained here because even their families would not accept them. Where do they go? They have nothing to do also.
M: The people who run the theatres told us that now that the number of these women reduced, people who visit these places have reduced considerably and so their business has come down. Is it true?
AB: No not really. You tell them -when you don't get the kind of pictures that you were used to why would people come?
M: Why aren't the pictures coming?
AB: Nowadays they do not make good pictures. It is more of nudity that is shown. Earlier films had good stories, nice sequence, people used to see… like it. Nowadays there is hardly any story in the films. The stories do not make any sense.
M: But these people show only old films and not new ones right?
AB: No they show all new films. They do not show films of Suraiyas or Noor Jahan time. None of these are shown.
Mazgaon
Nana Chowk, Mumbai
Pila House, Grant Road
Tardeo
The Tram transport has shut down in 1964. The legendary actor-singer Suraiya acted in her last film Rustam Sohrab in 1963. From tram as main public transport to films of Noor Jahan and Suraiya – Abdul Bhai's heart is fixed on the '50s. Like any old man who witnessed a lot of public actions in his hey days he is dismissive of today's culture – the ways of prostitution, the stories of films or the look of the stars.
action flick
actors
business
change
cinema halls
commercial sex work
early indian cinema
entertainment industry
film star
films
ghodawala
horse carts
kamathipura
migrants
migration
morality
mumbai
navigation
noor jahan
nostalgia
nudity
outcaste
pila house
play house
popular culture
popularity
port
professions
prostituation
public
social value
suraiya
talkies
theater
trams
transition
transporation
traveling
AB: Earlier there were silent films which we could watch for just 2-3 anas, there were no songs in it and carried only expressions. Then with Alam-Ara started dialogues. Then the inflow of public increased. Historical films were also made – about Nawabs, Laila Majnu, Bama khusro etc., so there were films about them. Suraiya did not know to sing. Noorjahan taught her to sing. Then she started singing and working. In addition to acting she took up singing also.
M: So which one is your favorite film?
AB: In singers I like Lata and Shamshad Begum. Music Director- Naushad. The trend has changed. Now it is more of senseless things that public prefers more. For instance there is dargah here, its not that dargahs do not exist now.
M: So they have build theatres on graveyards and dargahs. All this is not possible in the present day scenario?
AB: Earlier the stage was constructed a little away from dargah. Leaving 2-3 ft. Then they used to perform on it. In New Roshan, the dargah is actually a little aside. In Alfred, dargah is behind, even in Gulshan its behind, in Royal dargah is right in front, and in Nishad it is in front and so is in Taj.
M: So this is a strange place. If you see earlier there was graveyard and dargahs and then these theatres are built. People sang and danced there.
AB: The population was much lesser then.
M: Then how did these many bazaars run?
AB: In the past people just spend a rupee, 12 anas or so. What can I say more than this?
As Abdul Bhai repeats at various points he was a great fan of the mythological romance dramas of the black and white era. The history of popular culture from drama to silent cinema to talkies – is also the story of Abdul Bhai's life. Being a Pila House resident since '40s he has witnessed the consolidation and then industrialization of urban popular culture from close quarters.
The old and defunct graveyard was denotified by the govt. in 1857. Later the area was marked as an entertainment district – Play House. In the local tongue soon it became Pila House. As the pedestrian entertainment programme got more organized slowly came up structures of entertainment houses. Those houses have evolved through variety entertainment programme to Parsee theatre to silent cinema to talkies through the last century. Some of the houses are still there showing popular flicks for tickets pricing Rs. 15 and 20 as oppose to Rs.150 to 200. But the graves of saints and pious men survived through all these and emerged as popular religious site – Dargah. As a sign of great urban multi-culturalism the sites of the religious reverence and the popular entertainment co-exist in the same compounds in Pila House theatres. .
Pila House, Grant Road
acting
actors
alam-ara
audience
changing trend
ci-habitation
co-exist
compound
dargah
demography
denotification
entertainment district
film genre
film star
history
hybridization
indian cinema
lata mongeskar
multi-culturalism
mumbai
noor jahan
parsee theatre
pedestrian
pila house
play house
playback singers
plurality
popular culture
population
public
religion
religious
shamshad begum
silent cinema
singing
site
stand alone cinemas
story line
suraiya
talkies
ticket price
tolerance
variety entertainment
M: I've heard that in the red light areas, there were other kinds of markets also.
AB: All these are there from the earlier times. The one near Moti talkies was termed as pathanwadi, today they call it Kumbharwada, first, second, third lanes. There is mosque, Dargah everything in these lanes only. The lane that passes through the temple has a mosque, dargah everything.
M: So the names of these roads, lanes have changed?
AB: Yes. They keep changing. As I told you earlier this place was called Falkland road, now it's called Vitthal Bhai Patel Road. The names of lot of places have been changed.
M: oh it's so interesting to know that the names of the places have been changing. Could you give us the old names for the present places? We are familiar only with the new names?
AB: Falkland Road now Vitthal Bhai Patel, Nal bazaar, Bhindi bazaar the names remain the same. Have not changed since I came. This area earlier known as Pathanwadi now it's called Kumbharwada.
M: So now the women have gone, theatres are going to shut down, the area will change as a whole right?
AB: Oh no. The theatres will not be shut. The money that these theatre owners make will not be reduced. Earlier they used to have just 3 shows now it's increased to 4. They begin with morning show which gets over at 11, then another starts at 12, then at 4 and it continues. What's the loss that they incur? Why should they shut? They are making profit.
M: Do you feel that the residents in this area have changed in these 40-45 years?
AB: Oh...Lot of them has left this place. In the past, the chawls were very cheap. The owner would invite people to stay and let them use ample electricity. If you gave one month's rent, he would very happy. Today even ten thousand is not enough for them.
Pila House within the great tradition of business of Bombay has been a site of varied fortunes. People continue to invest and reap its benefits, and that is primarily what keeps it alive amidst a constantly evolving taste, texture and form. The names of the roads and areas change according to the Govt. in power. What was in British era Falkland road is renamed as Vitthal Bhai Patel road as a sign of post colonial identity assertion.
Kumbharwada
Pila House, Grant Road
Vitthal Bhai Patel road, Mumbai
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Jamnagar, Gujarat
M: So what kinds of people stay here now?
AB: Rich ones. If you have money you can take a room. 6-8 lakhs. Pay the rent as demanded. So there are lots of changes.
M: You mean to say the city no longer belongs to the ordinary person?
AB: There are good and bad people. Is there a place which does not comprise of good and bad people? Is there a place where all humans are very good? You tell me. There are these kind of people in big buildings also. Some come and go, some do business, some cheat. Those who get into the trap are not able to go back to their family. Then they will be left with no option. This is how the world runs. Earlier Guru Dutt films were in vogue, now nobody talks about it. Shyam is no more - earlier Shyam and Suraiya's films were a huge hit. Lots have changed here. The Parsees have left this place.
M: Why?
AB: They all went out. Some went to Jamnagar, lot of them went to Gujarat.
M: So what were the Parsees doing here? What kind of profession did they pursue?
AB: Their way of living was very different, their education, job everything… They never give a penny extra to anyone nor take from anyone. That was how they were. In winter they used to bring blankets in tempos and give it to the poor. They had this compassion for the poor.
M: So this has been a very interesting place right? There were Parsees, theatres, Dehli Darbar, some goons; there were these different kinds of people right?
AB: All kinds.
M: So you have seen lot in life?
AB: Yes.
M: Then you should write or tell everyone what you have seen.
AB: What should I say… I am an ordinary and uneducated person. It's just a blessing from god that I can at least speak so much. Otherwise I am nothing. But it is god's blessing that I sit in the counter now for last 6-7 years. I've told my Seth (employer) that you can settle all accounts, I can go back to my place. I would take up some small job and try to earn the little I can. But he replied there is no need for you to go. You just stay here.
Parsees are known for their philanthropic works in this city. In the memoirs of Abdul Bhai is hidden the history of urban entertainment through the 20th century. But at the end of it he is happy with the generosity of his employer who had allowed him to work in the cash counter of the hotel after doing menial work for 45 years.
Pila House, Grant Road
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