Dharavi Tamil Community: Landlord Chandrasekaran on Redevelopment
Director: Richa Hushing
Duration: 00:57:19; Aspect Ratio: 1.333:1; Hue: 22.490; Saturation: 0.076; Lightness: 0.327; Volume: 0.118; Cuts per Minute: 0.384; Words per Minute: 146.427
Summary: Dharavi is popularly termed as the largest slum in Asia. Known to be one of the densest and most layered human settlements in the world, the origin of Dharavi can be traced back to early 20th Century, at the height of the industrialization in the region. Dharavi is an area, which was originally located at the northern periphery of Bombay, but with boundaries of this ever-growing city constantly extending on all sides it has come to occupy prime location today. Today, according to official records, Dharavi is marked as an area spread over 223 hectares, where as many as 18,000 people crowd into a single acre. A 1986 survey by the National Slum Dwellers Federation (NSDF) counted 530,225 people (106,045 households) living in 80,518 structures. But considering the large number of 'unofficial/illegal' migration influx, the real number of people living in Dharavi is likely to be much more. Home to approximately one million people, Dharavi populace includes diverse language groups, religious communities and economic units. Most of Dharavi's old residents are from interior Maharashtra, Kutch and Kathiawad region in Gujarat and from Kanyakumari, Thirunelveli, Thuthukudi and Nellai districts in Tamil Nadu. Currently, Dharavi is in the eye of a storm as the prime land that it occupies needs to be 'redeveloped' to keep in pace with the economic globalization that is sweeping the city. Bombay, the supposed trade capital of India and India, the media acclaimed neo-Asian tiger of the international market, needs to grab more land and the old fashioned settlement of Dharavi must go in order to facilitate that. Currently the whole settlement - the residents' associations, the govt., the international builders' lobby as well as the civil society in Bombay are engaged in intense debate and complex maneuvering to extract the best possible deal out of this. But the problem is what is best for one economic group can be considered damaging by the others.
Following a proposal (valued at Rs. 93 billion -around USD 2.3 billion) by architect Mukesh Mehta, the Govt. has divided Dharavi in five sectors and announced call for tenders to develop each sector from international builders' agencies. The scheme is that profits from the sale of the high-end developments will fund the resettlement of eligible slum dwellers (those who can prove their residence prior to January 1, 1995 which now has been extended to the year 2000) in free 225 sq. ft. (which now has been increased to 269 sq. ft.) flats in multi-story buildings. Developers are also charged with providing some amenities and infrastructural improvements. Though the Govt. declared the names of 19 short listed bidders in January 2008, the whole scheme came under cloud for lack of transparency and absence of proper research. The whole process is stalled at the moment while some organizations are commissioned to conduct some field research on the existing socio-economic structure of Dharavi. Another reason for the 'go slow' policy of the Govt. could be due to impending general election. Most probably the Govt. and specially the ruling party do not want to risk public controversy at this stage.
The following is an interview with Dharavi slumlord, Mr. Chandrasekaran – owner of Rs. 100 Crores worth of property in Dharavi. He represents one of the first Tamil families to migrate to Dharavi from Tirunelveli district in Tamil Nadu in late 19th century. Through the four generation the family has made a fortune and now one of the most wealthy families in the area. Though he has earned his wealth mainly by manipulating various loopholes in the land control laws and regulation he is very critical about ill practices of other people. After earning money now he is very keen on acquiring the class. This makes him the staunchest supporter of the Dharavi redevelopment scheme.
Chandrashekharan, the Dharavi landlord, describes the birth and growth of the Tamil community in Dharavi. He descriptively explains his family topography and the arrival and establishment of the Tamil community in Dharavi, the formation of the Adi Dravida Mahajana Sabha and other communities. A dispute over a Ganesh idol led to the purchase and registration of the land, on which lies part of the now "hot – property" Dharavi.
Why such a dispute at that time would have risen can be speculated. One reason for this could be because the original inhabitants of Dharavi were the Kolis, who are Maharashtrians, the original devotees of lord Ganesh. A Ganesh idol set up on their land could have resulted in territorial dispute over access to divinity. For more on Adi Dravida community and association see 'Dharavi Tamil Community: Redevelopment for a Working Class Man' in this site.
The presence of Tamil community in Dharavi and the adjoining Matunga, Kings circle, Sion, Chembur areas is very large and significant. They not only developed various culture specific enterprises in the area – eateries, temples, tanneries, snacks making units etc. have also dominated the Bombay job markets. In mid 20th century it was believed that the Tamils had monopolised all accounts and other office jobs in Bombay. At the other extreme the many of the infamous dons of Bombay in '60s and '70s were Tamils and from this area. The clash between the Marathi chauvinist party Shivsena and the Tamils, that Chandrasekharan talks about is rooted from this belief.
Kondanagaram
Mahim
Melappalayam
Pratyusha (P): As you said before, how many generations have you been here?
Chandrasekaran (C): We…my grandfather, Nallamuthu Dasan Sivan Pandian, he… can I speak in Tamil?
P: Yes, Tamil.
C: Sivan Pandian's son was Nallamuthu Dasan. He came to Bombay in 1882 (?). Why he came here… the Muslims were in leather business, and the leather had to be cured/ prepared. So he was brought here as my grandfather knew that process very well. The Labbai's of Melappalayam were those who came here first, Muslims. They brought these people along with them.
P: Which town did they come from?
C: Melappalayam. My grandfather was from Tirunelveli, from Kondanagaram. After these people came here, the Muslims, they started their business. The Labbai's were here; my grandfather was with the Labbai's. Then my grandfather married and my father was born in 1901. Before that there were no Tamils here at all. After that slowly they brought Tamils to work, as labour. Those from Tirunelveli area was the most, since they could not go to other villages and bring people, so they brought the relatives from those nearby villages, all near to each other. They were brought here and formed…It was completely the Adi Dravida (SC) community. Thereafter, Nadars, Thevars, Pillai, all these communities came. It was the leather business here and these people were the labour. My grandfather was a mistry, for three companies he was the manager, Chayawadi, Palwadi, Allipillaiwadi, Poonenawadi, for these 4 companies he was the manager, although each also had their own managers. After that the Tamils came, all communities started coming slowly. But the majority was the Adi Dravida community. Then since we wanted a Tamil society, for the first time in Bombay, in Dharavi, before the establishment of the Adi Dravida Mahajana Sabha a Ganesh temple was set up. Who did it was Nallakannu Patel from Suththamalli who put a little Ganesh idol. The little idol became a matter of dispute. Take it away, you can't keep it, they were told. Then all our community people joined together, saying we will buy this land, they collected from all labourers one new paisa for each Rupee. Earlier, 16 annas were a rupee, so 64 paisa was a rupee. So they took one paisa for a person, only one paisa. That way they collected, and bought the Adi Dravida Mahajana Sangam from Peerbhai. Buying it from him, all this land of the Sangam, for the first time, land registration in Bombay… was for the first time ever among the Tamils for Adi Dravidas … for land registration, the first preference was for Adi Dravidas. Only after that it (the convention) was started other communities who came later. Then they built the temple. The Adi Dravida Mahajana was formed, I think in 1936 it was formed. It is functioning even now. Many came and went, but there is not much progress. Even though there are Adi Dravidas, there is no progress in the organization.
P: So the temple was built 4 years after you were born?
C: The temple…I was born in 1932, it was purchased in 1936. There is a record for it.
P: With the temple, 3 generations of yours have grown.
C: This is the 4th, 5th generation, my grandfather came, then my father, then I, Chandrasekharan, my six brothers, six sisters, after that my … children were all born here. We are the corporation family in Bombay, we have a huge population… population within the family…If you only invite the family, and a huge crowd turns up. All relatives only we call… So our family… community… we came here first …My grandfather Nallamuthu Dasan, is the founder of this Sangam. You heard that… Then my older sister was born. She was married to Mr. Doraisamy. He was the leader of the Congress committee. His son was the Corporator, the first Tamil Corporator, and Mr. D. Viswanathan Doraisami. He was there for 5…3 years. Then he gave up the Corporator's job and went off to the village. Then others came, AVT Ramasamy, others. They came later and went off too. Now there is no Tamil Corporator. The reason is that there is no unity. So there is no chance of a Tamil Corporator coming up. Since the Adi Dravida Mahajana Sangam was set up, it is… it was set up in 1936, if you count, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76, 86, 96, it is more than 60 years, 65 years since it was started. At that time there was only one, Dharavi Cross Road, Mahim station to Sion station. That was the main road. This side there was no Dharavi cross road, no Kumbharwada road, and no Shahu Nagar road. Only now these have all developed. Before there were only the Wadi workers here. After that slowly, except the Adi Dravida, other communities slowly started going for Railway and mill jobs. The Adi Dravidas did not go, they continued their leather work, because it was convenient and wages were also more. In the Railway if they got 7 or 8 rupees income, here these people got 10 rupees income. Ten rupees is good they said and stayed here. The others felt that 7 or 8 rupees was enough and did better jobs and developed. After that Dharavi started forming slums (jhopadpatti) Only a few people had lands, the rest were all municipality land, collector's land, municipality land. In that people just built houses and made it their own.
Sion, Mumbai
Suththamalli
Tamil Nadu
Tirunelveli
adi dravida
allipillaiwadi
chayawadi
city
community
company
craft
dispute
family
ganesh idol
generations
immigrant
labour
leather business
leather curing
manager
marriage
migration
mistry
muslims
palwadi
poonewadi
process
society
tamil
village
Dharavi
Mr. Chandrashekharan speaks about life in Dharavi during independence, about politics and about the leaders he had the honour of interacting with. The Adi Dravida Sangam brought to Dharavi, leaders like Dr. Ambedkar. The Adi Dravida Sangam was originally started in Tamil Nadu by Rettamalai Srinivasan as a Dalit movement, and found its way into Dharavi with the onset of the Tamil population and the need for them to safeguard their rights among the then Koli and Muslim populated Dharavi. M. Karunanidhi, the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu introduced the scheme of Periyar Ninaivu Samathuvapuram. Samathuvapuram meaning equality village or spatial equality, after Periyar E. V Ramasamy Naicker, a social revolutionary of the Dravidian movement during the early 20th century, introduced this concept in order to erase caste system and untouchability and to start a movement for Dalit rights. This concept calls about people of all castes to live equally in the same community and share the same facilities. To know more about this please see link –
http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/3205/1/MPRA_paper_3205.pdf
P: Before independence and after what has been the difference?
C: Earlier… there was no caste difference or discrimination, among all castes, Marathis too. But after the coming of politics, fights happened, between the Shivsena and the Tamils fights took place, after that politics came up. Before that everyone was united only, it was good. Here, "Samathuvapuram" was Maharashtra, Bombay, and Dharavi, every one of all castes would not fight. If anything happens the four parties would come together and speak and settle things and solve it.
P: From the time of independence…
C: From then till now it is like that. Even now in the Wadi, even if a fight happens, they don't make it seem big, they would neglect it. What are you, taking the name of caste and fighting, they would say… Samathuvapuram (a place of equality) it is said was started by Karunanidhi now, but it's been here since time immemorial. In the Adi Dravida Mahajana Sangha, all caste people were members in it. They were the governing members, not giving subscription but in the governing board. There were 75 members, all caste people, from your caste 2 people, from their caste 2 people; all castes were governing body members. There used to be only one Ganpati. As they went along they become different communities and started doing Ganpatis of their own. Now for every household have a Ganpati. But the importance of 'this' Ganesha is still there. From those days it used to be. Lalbagh started only recently. This was set up in 1935. The biggest Ganpati is the Dharavi Ganpati. Even now the last Ganpati to go is ours, the one belonging to us Madrasies.
P: What is the difference within Dharavi? And the relationship with those outside, the reaction… relationship, how has that changed?
C: That has developed now more than before. Even now, Dharavi… if a bank has given a loan, they won't return it, there would be fights. Even today that is a barrier for Dharavi. No bank gives loans to people in Dharavi. That is because with the experience of one or two defaulters, they assume that everybody will not repay and the don't give loans. Even today it is a barrier in Dharavi. When I have to get a loan, I give the address of another place. This is what is going on now. This has to be made known. There are nice people in Dharavi. Compared to other police stations, here theft, murders, robbery, etc. are less, here only in Dharavi police station. Here the population density is high. In other places it is less and spread. Here illiterates are more. Even then it is less. In places where literates live, it is more. Here where illiterates lives, fights, stabbing, quarrels, etc. are less. Here there is not much of robbery. But nobody believes it about Dharavi.
Then this Doraisamy seth is my older sister's husband. He has done lots for people, for society, has worked as a Congress leader and done good work. Then Mr. Sivan Pandian, he too has done a lot. He was the one who formed…In those days the most educated was Mr. Sivan Pandian. If anyone wanted an application done, they would go to Mr. Sivan Pandian he is my uncle, paternal uncle, my father's younger brother, and the most educated in those times. He was the one who introduced me to Dr. Ambedkar. Even big leaders like Ramaswamy Periya -r he brought to Bombay and introduced. As the population grew, and developed, he got the elders to come and speak on how to take things forward, Mr. Sivan Pandian
P: So around 1947 a lot of leaders have come here?
C: Yes, 1947... Even before 1947 they have come…
P: Who?
C: Ramaswamy Periyar had come, Dr. Ambedkar had come, Panneerselvam had come, and plenty of big leaders have come. It all there in the Adi Dravida Mahajana Sangam record. But they don't publicise that.
P: Why did Ambedkar come?
C: Ambedkar, because there were a lot of Adi Dravidas, the downtrodden, Scheduled Caste. Dr. Ambedkar was the most educated even then. In all the communities, they may not take his name out of envy but the world says he was the most educated. Even at the world level it is said among he is the most educated. It is a record even now. But because he was from the downtrodden community, they brought him here and introduced him; they wanted to be associated with him and had a meeting. Everyone was Scheduled Caste and he too was Scheduled Caste, so he had come.
P: Do you have a personal recollection of Ambedkar's coming or that of any other leader?
C: Yes, I have seen Dr. Ambedkar when he had come here.
P: You spoke to him?
C: No, I didn't speak I was a small boy then. Periyar had come, that time too I was a small boy.
P: With anyone do you have a recollection of an interaction or having spoken?
C: Yes, when Krishna Menon had come here, that time I was in the Congress I could go near him. I would have been about 15 years. I went up to him and gave my hand, but couldn't talk to him. He was a bold man. He would tell the police to move away, and he would go into any jhopda. Krishna Menon, he was a Congressman. He was the Defence Minister then. I was only 15 years then, but because of Congress I could go along, I had been able to shake hand but not speak with him. That chance I didn't get.
Chennai, Tamil Nadu
address
adi dravida mahajana sangha
bank
caste
class
congress
contacts
credibility
dharavi
discrimination
doraisamy
dr. ambedkar
fight
ganesh
ganpati
god
idol
illiteracy
independence
influential
karunanidhi
krishna menon
lalbagh
loans
location
madras
maharashtrians
panneerselvam
periyar
politics
relatives
robbery
samathuvapuram
shiv sena
sivan pandian
tamil
It is interesting to see how the interviewer tried to draw Chandrashekharan into a discussion about the country's independence in august 1947. But for him independence is no memory – what he remembers of that time is how dominating the caste system was in Dharavi and how the ordinary residents struggled to gain legitimacy and dignity in the city.
Adi Dravidar is a broad caste name for a section of the Tamil low caste migrants in Bombay. They migrated around the beginning of 20th century from Kanyakumari, Tirunelveli, Chidambaram, Salem, South Arcot, North Arcot, Chengleput and Chennai district in Tamil Nadu. Though in government circular they are listed under three different categories, they are generally referred to as Paraiyar. There are other nomenclature such as Samban and Paraiyan.
Interestingly the loosening of the case system can be witnessed in a few cases of inter-caste marriages between the Adi – Dravidas and the Brahmins in Dharavi. But still the person from the upper caste (usually a Bramhin woman) looses her class privilege and gets demoted to the lower caste of her partner. Hence only way to cope with such humiliation is to migrate out of Dharavi which again is a class prerogative. Only educated and people with jobs in offices can afford to shift out. So in effect, equality between castes is a privilege only available to people who could attain certain class privileges.
However there is a catch - the Brahmin woman would become a scheduled caste and hence, an inter-caste married couple must leave Dharavi and start a new life elsewhere, lest they get eaten up by the side-effects of "samathuvapuram".
P: How was August 15, 1947?
C: In 47, it was dirty here. You couldn't stand the smell of leather. No one would come here. If you say Dharavi, you wouldn't get a taxi. No one would come. Thinking that Dharavi means fights and killing, no taxi would come inside here. Only if you request and say I would give you 20/- for Rs.10/- would they come. Even if they come, they would drop you off at the main road and go. The reason is that some people who take taxis here don't pay the fare after reaching, that's why they don't come. Now in Dharavi anyone will come, because there are roads on all 4 sides. Now all that is not there.
P: How was August 15, 1947, on independence?
C: After getting independence…
P: On that day how was it?
C: The situation then was good; still, the caste feeling was there a lot. They don't show it outside, but indirectly they would attack.
P: Within Tamilians, or upon Tamils?
C: Within Tamils itself it was there, the caste feeling; between the Thevars and the Nadar communities, they would dominate them. But these people were in majority, and if a fight happens, you couldn't fight them out.
P: Who?
C: The Adi Dravidas. They couldn't attack these people, They would attack them back. So they (Thevars and Nadars) would be scared and remain behind. Now that situation has changed, and Dharavi has become a "Samathuvapuram". So nothing is there. Even if it were there, nobody cares. The Adi Dravidas when they see an upper caste, they don't go and fight. They go to each others' houses, go for the marriages etc. it's really developed a lot. They eat in each others' houses; they go to all the communities.
P: Are there any inter-caste marriages?
C: Inter-caste marriages are very less. Rarely people do it. …. There are inter-caste/ mixed marriages. These Adi Dravidas have only had a lot of inter-caste marriages with Brahmins. There have been a lot.
P: After marriage, would they go out of Dharavi or stay here?
C: They would go outside of Dharavi. That is better in my opinion. As far as I am concerned that is best. If they stay here, if they stay here, the Brahmin woman would become a Scheduled Caste, because the situation here is like that. Here the education levels are so poor. So what happens is that all the educated leave and go away. If they do any good they leave.
P: So if they inter-marry they leave?
C: Yes, yes, of course! If they stay here, it is wrong. It is better to leave and go away, as far as I know. It's good for their progress. If you want to progress, you must go outside only. Otherwise no progress to them.
1947
Chengleput
Chennai, Tamil Nadu
Chidambaram
Kanyakumari
Salem
South Arcot
Tirunelveli
adi dravidas
british rule
criminal
den
dharavi
fights
independence
inter-caste marriage
killing
myth
nadars
progress
samathuvapuram
scheduled caste
taxi
thevars
Mr. Chandrashekaran explains how Dharavi's setting made it what it is today – its proximity to the Bandra slaughter house, proximity to the sea, to Mahim, Matunga and Sion stations, its central location in the city of Bombay made it Dharavi many years ago and today it is the same reasons that have brought Dharavi under the Government and Developer's eyes. But Mr. Chadrashekhar is a seasoned man, he knows the importance of mixing business with politics and opted for the Dalit outfit Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP).
P: Why did your grandfather, who came here many years before, choose to come to Dharavi specifically?
C: Dharavi was named Dharavi then itself.
P: Why did he choose to come here?
C: Dharavi was the central place, when leather used to be cut up and brought here; from near Bandra Slaughter House this was the central place to which it was brought.
P: Because the Muslims were there, was it decided to bring it here?
C: No decision like that, at that time itself the Slaughter House was in Bandra only. The cattle used to be in Bandra and this place was close by. The transport charges used to be very less. That was why they kept it near. Dharavi is in the middle place, because Sion station, Matunga station… Matunga Road station and Mahim. This is in the centre of it all. It is next to the Slaughter House. For all the things to be brought and unloaded…this used to be there…dhakkha…it is called, that is…for all things that are brought, for it to be unloaded… goods… what is called… centre. It used to come to the Mahim station and would be brought here. And because it was near, when water that got collected would had drained off, as the sea was near. It was small, it was only an island. The water would be drained off the gutter. But it used to be very bad, worst. No people would stay here. Only the Scheduled Caste people would stay. Others who came only stayed because they had no other option. All those caste people stayed. All those others were non-vegetarian, and being non-vegetarian, they must be here only. Things would be cheap here. That's why. But I am a pure vegetarian. Since 70 years. In 75 years, I have never eaten it, since childhood. My children too are pure vegetarians. We don't eat non-vegetarian at all. We are vegetarian! But as Adi Dravidas, the community is non-veg, but I am a pure veg. They are all non-veg. Anywhere we go, even for big marriages, even if we go to Mayawati's house and they serve non-veg… but we don't eat.
P: Have you gone (to Mayawati's) just like that?
C: Yes, I had been the Bombay City President for 16 months. Not now. Now they have someone else.
P: So you have met a lot of politicians?
C: Now? In the last 2 years. Last year I stood for election and this…
P: Who all have you met?
C: I have met Mayawati. I have met Prabharshi, who is the Minister. I have met many such people.
P: How have they reacted to Dharavi?
C: They don't come to be in Dharavi. They are all from UP side. They would come here, as they are politicians. As the party has to stand (contest election) now, so they made me the president. I too had worked. They would have the feeling, that a Tamil is the head now all over Bombay. It has 280… corporation city. So they feel… oh, he is the leader that feeling is there. After the place has been developed, many have wanted to become the leader. I said, it is upto you, whoever wants. I said Mayawati's party is a good party, I feel good about it. So I will work for it. Now if you want you work, I have no objection, so they have chosen someone else.
Bandra
Mahim
Matunga
Sion
UP
adi dravidas
bahujan samaj party
bandra slaughter house
bombay city president
bsp
cow
dharavi
elections
leather
location
mayawati
non-vegetarian
politicians
proximity
scheduled caste
settlement
tannery
vegetarian
P: Now you said that if you are from Dharavi they don't give bank loans, how did it get such a name, that it is a slum area?
C: They would take loans and not return it. They would do bullying here.
P: You and your family came in 1892, and then there was the trade of tanneries, still how did this name come about?
C: Even if the trade was there, these people were all workers. There were very few people who were traders At that time these loan habits were not there. Even the Seths were Adi Dravidas, the businessmen too were Adi Dravidas. 99 per cent were Adi Dravidas in the leather business. But today not one of them is there. All those who did the leather business have been totally destroyed. Why? Because taking the skin off live creatures, it's not good. Huntington George company, Western India Tanneries, India Goods Corporation and Chettiar & company, all these became totally bankrupt. Why because you kill live creatures and do it. This thing I knew even before, so I never did this business.
P: What business do you do?
C: I am a landlord. In this place, the one who has the most property is me. 10,000 sq metres (sic) is in my name. There is record in my name. Then tenants in 18,000 sq feet. For 6000 sq metres (sic) I am the VLT (vacant land tenancy) landlord. I am the big landlord here, why, because we had come here long before.
P: Now this sectorisation is happening, development planning is on … and you are a landlord….
C: Yes, there should be development. We are ready to give our land. Oh, yes! Because if there is no development these people won't improve. There will be fights, there will be one community dominating and bullying the others, because of majority in numbers. If communities are equal in number it won't happen, but if one community is more and another less, then the bullying happens. The only reason for this is lack of education. That is why there is lack of development as the educated are less, the illiterates are more. If you take any community, it's the illiterates who are the leaders. That is why that community does not develop. The educated is not given a chance by the illiterate chaps. These guys group together and chase away the educated. That is why the only reason for lack of development in all castes, is that there are illiterates in the majority chasing away the literates.
Vegetarianism in India is a very fraught concept. Militant vegetarianism of the upper caste and the influential communities often whip up public sentiment and even criminal activities against the non-vegetarians. Since the lower castes and non Hindu communities are traditionally non- vegetarians the simple food habit become a social stigma and political issue. Periodically there are attempts to ban the abolishing of the slaughter houses in order to punish the beef eating Muslims and pork eating Christians. It is interesting that a person like Chandrashekharan who is rich and yet belongs to a lower caste is a vehement vegetarian and full of contempt for business of animal hide-ing.
The Tamil settlers in the leather industry have earned an unparallel reputation in the urban lore of Mumbai. Much of Dharavi's dreaded image in popular imagination comes from the legends about these people. The process of leather making or the tannery business itself is associated with dark rituals and deals. It starts from acquiring animal skin. The skin then goes to the tannery for processing. Earlier the hides were processed in tanneries in Dharavi itself which were all situated near the creek. But the wastes from the tanneries spoilt the water of the creeks and affected the fishing business. Since late 70s many of the tanneries (the processing of hide to rough leather) were forced to close down on the pretext of environmental hazard. It is suspected by many urban historians that the campaign to ban hide processing also has something to do with the hegemonic Hindu culture of militant vegetarianism.
Chandrashekharan is a case of finding gold in the metropolis. He is a slum lord who stands to gain a lot under the scheme of Dharavi redevelopment. In the current status the tenants are mostly poor wage workers. As Dharavi is notorious in popular imagination the middle class people hesitate to reside in this area and thus the rent rate remains comparatively low. But under the development scheme Chandrashekharan stands to get large sum as compensation to vacate his poor tenants. He says he is one of the biggest VLT – Vacant land tenant in Dharavi. This is a quirky practice of land owning in Bombay - some tenants, without permission from the Municipality, take over vacant space adjacent to their "deeded" property. On these parcels they also built structures and rented them out, illegally, to migrants and residents moving from other slum areas in Bombay. Those with deeds, though tenants in a legal sense, became "landlords" in practice and outlook. Hence when the Municipality wants to get back the land they would have to compensate the 'land lord' and not the people who live on that land – as they would be considered sub-tenant. This is how the dreaded group of slum lords rule over the city.
animal hide
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bankruptcy
bullying
chettiar and company
christian
communal
community
competition
creek
dadagiri
development
dharavi
domination
dreaded
gentrification
hegemony
hindu
huntington george company
india goods corporation
land ownership
landlord
leather industry
literacy
loans
lower caste
militant vegetarianism
municipality
muslim
ownership
problems
reputation
sectorisation
slaughter house
slumlord
stigma
sub-tenancy
tanneries
urban
vacant land tenancy
vlt
western india tanneries
P: So many people have raised their voices against this development, what do you have to say about that?
C: Whoever has raised their voice against; it is the political party which has done so, because they want votes.
P: Those who are living in Dharavi will they get equal amount of land that they are currently living on? Even those who are working, will they get that land? Or those who are tenants, will they get that land?
C: Yes, they have to be given, because they are not going to live here. They don't have the capacity to live here. So they will have to go. Here… what do they give the building when they go in…not advance… maintenance charge. Today will they give 300 – 400/- those who cannot give Rs.20 as rent? Tomorrow they cannot give it, their income will be less.
P: So with development, they will all have to shift away is it?
C: Even if they are given rooms, they will not be able to give maintenance charges, and so they will definitely sell and go away.
P: So for them development is not beneficial?
C: Yes. Definitely bad.
P: That way there would be several people displaced, right? Then how would you say development is good?
C: After these people go away, Dharavi would improve, become a great centre… it will become a big place… good people would remain. Good people only should be there. If we say that these people are not being developed, or that they will return, so let us keep the status quo, then what would happen to Maharashtra? It would become third class. My aim is that development should be there, whoever it is, whichever the caste, those who are uneducated should go, go away and die. Today it is the uneducated fellows who are destroying all the associations. If they were educated, it would have developed by now. What they say is that you give us this much money for the maintenance charges and then we will stay. You go ahead and develop they say. If they are promised 1 or 2 buildings then they say, OK go ahead and develop and then…unable to give the charges…what do you call it…
P: Maintenance?
C: Yes unable to pay the maintenance charge, they sell it and run away. Why can't they buy some shops to pay up their maintenance charges? If they are giving 10 shops, you take 20 shops, because with that money they can pay maintenance charges. They don't say so. If the promoter gives 2 buildings, these people say yes, and take it. And it's the stupid promoters who eat it all up, who keep doing all the bullying. If there were a couple of educated chaps among them, and they join the rest and say no, you have to do it this way; otherwise we will blow you away. Then they would get scared and listen and say ok and take what they give. That is why there is no development happening here. Totally if you see, all communities are illiterate. Fools only have been leaders here in Dharavi, all stupid, none who are educated. None of the educated takes leadership. That is the reason that they sell and go away, and there is no development, that they run away being unable to pay maintenance charges. Today as far as I know, the maintenance charges are 300, 400, 500 rupees too. As time will pass, it will become 1000, 2000 too. Their income sources are less while expenditures are more. So they will sell only and go, they have no other option.
P: So it is okay if they go away?
C: Yes, yes, let them go. They shouldn't stay here. People will be spoilt, if they stay. But in their place, others will come. They will remain here. There is no place for the uneducated. In a school there are children studying, but only those children who pass go to the next class, those who repeat in the same class for 2 years, leave and go off to another school. Then the class becomes clean, and new children come in and they study well. This is my opinion! Honest opinion, not local opinion… this is my honest opinion. They definitely should not stay. If they stay, there is plenty of chance for fights happening in the community. If they don't stay, and only the educated then there won't be any fights in the community. Only the educated will like the educated (recites a two-liner from some Tamil text,) whatever the caste, they wouldn't be concerned. This is a metropolitan city. Why should they be bothered? I like you, you like me, that's all! They won't ask you what caste you are. If you see a good girl then a gentleman will love her, and you will love in return, then you won't ask... When he loves, will he ask what caste you are? No! They would just see each other's face and decide they like each other. After that they get married and right! That's what I like very much.
Which is why I wish there are only educated here. There can be clever people too. But there are very few clever people, they don't say if they are too. What do you say? I am a big landlord. I do all sorts of business.
We see development from the eyes of a Dharavi slum lord. His logic is (too) simple and perspective one-sided and it seems that his perception of development contradicts his earlier affinity towards "Samathuvapuram". The education characterises good people, clever businessman equates good citizen, erasure of caste system is allowed only for the affluents and development is cleansing. But he also drives a simple truth home. There have been ample cases of (un)sustainable development in the city. There are many colonies where the slum dwellers are resettled in high rise buildings under SRA (slum rehabilitation authority). After a few months the residents cannot pay the maintenance fee and the amenities – lift, water, electricity - slowly dry up. The old and the infirm cannot move out of the flat. Some families try to run their sweat shops from the tiny flats. But many of those vocations require some ground area which is easily available in the slum structure but not in high rise buildings. So the buildings slowly become vertical slums without the essential outlets.
affordability
building
citizenship
class
cleansing
development
dharavi
displacement
educated
expenditure
gentrification
income
land
landlord
maintenance
money
owners
politics
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status
tenants
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Charitable trusts are exempted from income tax. It is a lucrative way to evade tax for many businessmen.
P: What sort of business do you run?
C: I run a charitable trust. Shri Chandrasekara Educational Charitable Trust Shri Chandrasekara Educational Charitable Trust… I have one in Sri Thoppaiayyanchatram in Tirunelveli, which is also a charitable trust. That also I look after. This is my card. My son Lakshmanathan is the Treasurer. His name is here. We do this…Annually we give 1 – 1.25 lakhs donation. Everyone gives. Through cheque we give. To the concerned doctor or concerned officer… we don't give directly. You can have my card. Then, when in the party… when I was a leader in the Bahujan Samaj Party… the card of that time. I have put details of my charitable trust behind as people should know who this leader is, isn't it? It should not seem as though this fellow came only to eat, but whether he has come to do some good. So behind the card I have written who I am where my trust is etc. But I don't go to anyone and ask for money, I don't ever go and ask for donation. This is my own thing… I also have a small bank. If people come to deposit any money, I make a receipt for the interest as donation and give it off. So there is no interest, its donation, and with that money we do work in the educational charity.
Tirunelveli, Tamil Nadu
bahujan samaj party
donation
interest
profile
receipt
sri chandrasekara educational charitable trust
P: Now you are a big landlord, and you believe in development. So in 5-10 years what should we hope for Dharavi and realistically what do you think will happen in Dharavi?
C: Dharavi is the …name of this place, like Tirunelveli, or Madras. That can be changed. Now, the name Madras was changed to Chennai because Madras was named by the British. But whose name is Dharavi? It is a common name. Dharavi will remain Dharavi only. Dharavi as a place…
P: How do you think Dharavi should be developed?
C: I believe Dharavi should be developed very much.
P: But what can realistically happen in 5 years?
C: It depends on politics. It is politics which is running everything now. In politics whoever is forceful, it would go to them.
P: How much can happen in 5 years do you think?
C: In 5 years nothing much can progress. It will take 10 years. Minimum it will take 10 years.
P: How much progress will happen?
C: …You are asking about what will happen? About what has happened, you have seen what is happening. Now they don't allow societies, as the sector system has come about… private and this sector… government sector and private sector is separate. They won't allow private people to build separately. When we ask, give us a chance to build, saying we will build as you instruct. You give the plan. You decide where and how the roads will be. But at that particular place you give us a chance to build. We all go and ask. We have a landlord's society, in which we are all members, life members. We all go and ask…. But the politicians won't give. They say you sell it to us; we will do it for you. These people they give it to the foreigners, the developers, and get some money from them. Totally, I don't want to say or name anything or anyone specific. I could say if I want, but it is unnecessary. The politicians only have spoilt it.
P: So if it goes like this, then in 10 years, the progress will be...
C: It will be very less.
P: What levels?
C: Who has how much political clout that much it will go. The Congress…
P: If there has to be a complete change how many years will it take?
C: That will take 25 years! It will take 25 years… it is this politics which is the bad thing.
Richa: What face do you foresee, how do you…what do you see as the face of Dharavi? What is your ideal vision of Dharavi?
C: We think that there should be improvement. These politicians have spoilt it all. They just pass time this way. Now the Congress has come, in the next 5 years the Bharatiya Janata Party will come, then Shivsena will come. Then who will add that? Then that one will come, then they fall, then…Then they join together and form this company. Then the company does something. Then someone else comes and disturbs it, saying this and that… This is what they keep doing. Nothing else.
P: As far as you are concerned, Dharavi should be this way, do you see anything like that?
C: As far as I am concerned, Dharavi should be more developed… lots
P: Can you say concretely?
C: You know, like foreign, like Hong Kong, Singapore. Bombay, because this is a city, main city. In Maharashtra, the main city is Bombay city. Bombay should be Bombay; Mumbai… the name is kept after Mumbadevi. When we came here we used to go to Mumbadevi. It was not Bombay then. It is the whiteman who came and named Mumbadevi as Bombay, its nothing else. Since they couldn't pronounce it, in the change of language, it became Bombay. But it should be Mumbai only. Because I am a pure Maharashtrian. Although I am Tamil, I was born here, brought up here, my mother tongue is of this place, Maharashtra. I have property and everything here. In Tamilnadu, there is little land belonging to my grandfather's. Everything else is here. And so Bombay has to improve, Dharavi too has to develop very much.
P: You spoke of Hong Kong, Singapore. Do you think in 25 years that would happen?
C: I have that faith, it will happen. It will come. Even now it is happening… there are buildings being built, 28 floors, 30 floors, 50 floors, the buildings are being built, all around. When it is so, this would definitely come. Nearby the situation is like, so this too would happen. Many people will come giving more money. In Bandra, they have given 50 rupees per sq feet and vacated. In the Bandra-Kurla link road. When they give 50 rupees for a square foot, then they should give it here also, isn't it? They would give definitely. Because it is so near (to other developed places). When that is so developed, this will also become developed, definitely. It is nearby Dharavi no? To Bandra-Kurla Link road? To Bandra-Kurla Complex. Nearby, next to Dharavi… There are also a lot of government flats. They would close down all of that, bring it down and built in its place. So automatically this would also go away, this slum area. When that becomes a majority, automatically this would go away.
The slum redevelopment is a contested concept in Bombay – it is big business, major political agenda and a contested social issue. Slums come up to accommodate large number of migrants from outside the city and also from inside the city who are ejected out from the mainstream – retrenched workers, destitute citizens, displaced families etc. The slums provide the menial work force to the city – the maids, servants, coolies, masons, plumbers, carpenters, hawkers, sex workers, watchmen, taxi drivers etc. Periodically the Govt. floats various schemes and bodies to resolve the problem of mushrooming slums. In 1991 they started SRA – slum rehabilitation authority, a body which is autonomous and immensely influential. Various high rise buildings were built by the private builders as assignments from the govt. to rehabilitate the slum dwellers and get extra FSI (floor space index) to sell in the market. Often the buildings are made of poor material and extra FSI is obtained by unscrupulous means. The SRA had built some buildings in Dharavi too. In 2005 the Govt. announces a special body DRP (Dharavi redevelopment project) under the supervision of SRA. Under this scheme the whole area of 223 hectares and of one million people will be developed simultaneously. For this purpose the entire area is divided in five sectors and tenders from international builders have been solicited. It seems only thing that is bothering local businessmen like Chandrashekharan is the scale of the project where big international builders are involved and the small fishes like them are unlikely to rip large benefit.
Ironically, Chandrashekhar is again absolutely right about the delay in implementing the scheme due to political interference. This interview was taken 10 months before the general election of India in April 2009. At that time no political party, whether in power or not, could afford to push for a scheme which is likely to displace a large number of voters. Hence it was a lean season for DRP. But unlike Chandrashekharan, I believe it to be a positive sign. Because of the formal democracy no politician or political party can afford to go full fledged against the poor people. They need to think about the next election. Hence each Govt. scheme gone through some kind of automatic scrutiny.
Bandra
Bandra Kurla Complex
Bombay
Hong Kong
Madras, Tamil Nadu
Maharashtra
Singapore
Tirunelveli
benefit
bjp
british
builders
citizen
congress
democracy
destitute
development
dharavi
dharavi redevelopment project
displaced
dreams
drp
election
electoral
floor space index
fsi
hope
improvement
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landlord's society
mother tongue
political party
politics
private
progress
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sectors
shivsena
slum dwellers
slum rehabilitation authority
slums
sra
tenders
vision
voter
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Chandrashekhar does not dispute the utility of the poor, he never claims that the city do not need them. His formula is that they should come in every morning to the city to work and leave in the evening. They are good enough to work here but not to live here.
P: But there should be a place for these people to stay? If you say Bombay has to be Hong Kong, then slums can't be here? The slum has to be somewhere in Bombay, right?
C: They have to make the arrangement for it. There is a lot of place. They just have to round it up and give it to the people. They are building 10 floors, 20 floors, so they should put them up in the 20 floors. They will set themselves up.
P: Many of them have work in the places of residence, like papad making, embroidery. If they are offered new places, do you think they would have place to do these things there?
C: See people are coming from Poona to Bombay. There is bus arrangement. There is accommodation, bus accommodation, auto accommodation, there are two-wheelers coming. Are these not accommodation for them? Why can't they come, if people are coming from Poona, people who are big officers?
P: Whatever it is, it is not like working from home? Won't it be a minus point for them, travelling and wasting so much time?
C: Rather than take daily ticket, they take a pass, isn't that economical. See it's for their betterment… because they cannot stay here, they are being put there. Let them come and go everyday, everybody does it. There are a lot of such people in Dharavi too, in other parts, around Dharavi. They also come and go everyday. Why shouldn't these people do it? All the factories are outside, where are they within Bombay? All in Thana, etc. in New Bombay. How many companies are there in Bombay? The Central Railway only is there, and Western Railway. They come in the train everyday, not in any pleasure car. Its not difficult, people can come and go. It's these politicians, who say they have to be given place here only. If you look at your convenience, then there won't be development here. There won't be any educated here. They stay and do the bullying (dadagiri) They would create a gang, and have connection with the gang here, and stay put here. If you keep these people here, this is what will happen. They would keep disturbing all the educated people. Because they are not that educated. So they should be removed, as far as I am concerned, it is best and good…good and best.
Richa: So basically you want Dharavi to be posh and swanky?
C: Yes, yes. I want it to be developed like this. I am ready to give all my property for it. Whatever can be given should be given, and then tell them to develop. If we want to get money, we will get if it is written in our fate. We live here only. We will still develop it. We will also become a big businessman. We have 100 crore (sic) property. If we have 100 crore worth now, how much more will we earn? Should we just sit with it saying there will be no development? We will give and say, here, you take out the cash, what do you offer now? If you can't give 100 per cent, give 80 per cent. Even 75 per cent you give; I am ready to sell to you. 75 per cent is 75 lakhs I can get out of anyone. I can do some business, besides I still have some charity work etc. to do. I want to build a cow shed, have to keep thousands of cattle, the temple is there. All that we will develop. We will also do something for the poor. We have done too. If we have money we will work. And if there is development, they will also be recognised. Nobody recognises local people. Who we should approach, they don't let us approach them. What is the meaning of this? The local people are not educated. If they are educated, they would get the indication to go ahead… But they don't let the vehicle go ahead. This is the problem here. They won't let good people go ahead. The organised politics and uneducated people are more here. They are the leaders here. Are there any educated leaders, have a look? Where are they? There are none! Check out in all the communities. Who are all the educated? How educated are the leaders? How much has the Secretary studied up to? How much is the Committee member educated? Check out. Find out from all communities. Which is why, the lack of development here is lack of education. They keep the politicians in their hand and work. Which is why they say, give them 300, 400, 500, they are not going to live here. They will sell and go away, 100 per cent I am saying. In the Labour Camp they gave a building like this, to Makadwale community and for the Scheduled Caste. They all sold and went away. And came back here to the slum. In those places other people have come and stayed. Labour camp, portion number 19, that is now in Matunga. If you ask them where they live, they say, we live in Matunga. But portion number 19 that is in Dharavi sector. The good educated people, they live there. How much of development happened here, they all sold and went away. Mostly it is the Muslim community who come give money and take the place. What will you do if they now become a majority? What will happen, they are also non-vegetarian…What thinking they will do, you know everything. You can be sure about that. What they will do afterwards…. They will rule here then. Their people will be here, which is why development is very important! What will the uneducated person do? Wrong rule. He may be a Minister, MLA or MP. They will go according to that. So if you want educated people and their rule, then development has to happen. If educated people remain they will do. This is my intention…
Richa: You have a lot of angst within you?
C: Yes please? Do you want to ask any more questions of me?
Richa: Is there anything specific you want to say? (very feeble)
Hong Kong
Matunga
New Bombay
Poona, Maharashtra
Thane, Bombay
bullying
business
charity
development
displacement
hong kong
labour camp
money
politicians
portion number 19
posh
profit
railway
slums
swanky
travel
utopia
wage worker
work
P: Where did you study?
C: Here in Matunga…. Municipal school. Then in Dharavi. In this Dharavi, one thing you should know, my maternal aunty… paternal aunty's husband, Mr. Nariamissiya, who belongs to Paththamadai. He started the Tamil school here. Its above the Irani hotel on the main road, you know the mosque... He was the first one to bring a Tamil school here. That time there was Mr. Nataraja Iyer. Nataraja Iyer developed it a bit. It was there till 6th class. So till 6th I studied here. Then I studied one class there. After that I studied outside.
P: Till what class did you study?
C: I studied till S.S.L.C. (10th). That I did through private. But I didn't write the exam.
P: You didn't write the S.S.L.C. (10th) exam?
C: No, I didn't. The situation I was in was a bit like that.
P: Did you participate in any meetings of…
C: Yes, yes, I participate in every meeting. But not in the sector meeting. I have not participated in it. They are not calling me. I can talk straight saying this is how it has to be and the politicians are spoiling everything. I am not going to be scared of them. I am straight forward. For that reason, they are not calling me to the meeting. Everywhere, in the Adi Dravida Mahajana Sangham meeting as well, this belongs to… of which the founder was my grandfather. They also don't call me because I am straight forward. I want progress. Which is why it is full of fools and they don't take me. You understood? Now you see, in 1960 we gave 300/- as the life member. 65 years ago. Even now they take 300/- for a life member, imagine what big fools they are. If you count it, you get 2.25/- interest in a year. If you have to take, you should take 4000/- or 5000/- from a life member. What big fools, they keep 1000 people within and who put their vote and keep on. Tell me…This is there in all communities, ok. You ask the reason, and find out who is the most educated in this Sangh? How much would he be educated? Take out their education list. The President. Find out whether B.A. or M.A. the Secretary has done? Or the Treasurer? All zero! They would be 8th standard, 7th standard, and 9th standard. What can you do? For whom can you do? Nothing can be done. It gets filed. As you develop, you get filed. The rest all get developed. We have developed a lot. You kept me out, thinking I am a fool. But I am saying all of you are fools.
P: There is a lot of difference in the Dharavi of 1932 and the Dharavi now?
C: Yes yes.
P: At what stages did the development come?
C: Step by step.
P: How many years did it take?
C: To be developed this much, after almost 20 –25 years it has become good. Before that it was just like that. When the road was laid, and road connection happened it got developed.
P: Twenty years?
C: 25 years. When the road was developed. When the road was laid (drawing it out). This is Mahim. You cross this creek, then you come to Sion station, this is Matunga station. All this was creek. When this road was laid, in all this creek area houses came up, here houses came up, here houses came up, developed. When this was developed, it became Bombay's big slum area, Dharavi. From Rajiv Gandhi's time they have tried to develop it. The government will not allow it to develop, the municipality. That is why they say for the development, cough up money. So it all stopped. Otherwise, Rajiv Gandhi had said, build 17 floors and live happily. But they did not allow it to develop, who, the municipality. Since there was no money, they just left it without developing. Then in his time they said you form societies and build yourself. When that was happening little by little, it was stopped. Nobody knows the reasons. They just created some complications and let it be. In the last 30 years, it has developed…All this was developed in 1972. Recently. This about 5 –6 years ago. All these nearby buildings, this college…..All these are 7 years, 8 years. The one opposite the police station is 7 years, 8 years. All these are 7 years, 8 years, 10 years old. This Baliga Nagar that is 25 years, 30 years. Then Diamond Apartments, private it is, Diamond Apartments, then Vaibhav Apartments, also private. All this has developed locally in the last 20 –25 years. That is also because these roads are joined together and communication and transportation has increased…. Even now it is very congested this cross road is very crowded. You cannot go that way in the evening. You can see all the roads in the evening. From 5 o' clock for 2 hours from Mahim station to Sion station it is so terrible. So it will take some time to be developed. But you know the reason they stay on, transport is very convenient. There you also get all things, vegetables, fish, mutton, etc. very easily, because the local people bring it and sell. On the road, they keep their vegetable shops and so on. They find it convenient, for transport. And they eat there too. So they get ill also and they cannot develop. If you see their convenience, then there won't be any progress for India. Maharashtra will also not improve surely. So is it better to have 4 or 10 children and be a fool or just have 2 children and be good, you take the decision. Which is good?
Will you have anything? Get cool drink.
The 10th standard pass slumlord, for some strange reason, hates people who are not educated. For him the poor, the trouble makers, the anti-development lobby and the uneducated are the same. Driving out the poor, shunning the non-vegetarians, avoiding the uneducated are the essential ingredients for the development of an area.
Mahim
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fees
interest
irani hotel dharavi
khaadi
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nataraja iyer
ownership
progress
qualifications
roads
s.s.l.c
slums
C: What is your name?
P: Pratyusha.
C: In that Dharavi police station, there is so much corruption.
P: Why is that?
C: Because there are fools here.
Richa: Are there any Tamil ladies who are into activism?
C: No…
Richa: None of the Tamil ladies that you know?
C: If there are fools here, how will they allow ladies to come up? They tease them and they run away.
Richa: Maybe not in political parties, but some sort of… programmes or activism?
C: All that does not happen.
P: They stay at home?
C: There are… but they are not coming forward.
Richa: What do most of the Tamil ladies out here in this community do?
C: As far as I know they are not coming out to do any progress. They don't come
Richa: What is your daily schedule?
C: She is a housewife, looking after the children. I try and call the retired teachers. Come and take tuition, and they now earn 100, 200, and 500. I said you retired people I will give you a stipend, and come and teach for 1000-1200 rupees. I will give you a place. But nobody comes forward. Why? After being retired, they just remain retired.
P: Who goes for tuition?
C: The children. They don't teach them in the school properly. All the students here go for tuition. 90 per cent go for tuition. Their parents are not educated. Even if they are educated, now-a-days, the syllabus, they are not familiar… they don't get it. It takes a lot of time also. They don't understand also. They send them to the new teachers but they don't understand. Then they don't study also…
Richa: What do the majority of Tamils here do?
C: Here, Hindi, Marathi, English, everything they study. And then they do business. They do common work.
P: So what work do you do?
C: All…. Some are coolie; some are officers, in everything.
P: Are there tailors?
C: Yes, everything, all rounder.
Woman: They go out in the morning at 8 and come back in the evening by 6.
Richa: So they get into all the sectors?
Woman: Now all people go out to work.
C: Nothing like that. All work they do. They do tailoring, this thing, that thing. All sorts.
Woman: All people go to work now.
C: There is a tutorial college opened for the children. Many go to the tutorial college also. They take money to go also. There are many teachers here even in other communities. We call them and say teach for 2 hours and go. Nobody does… All do their own work. Nobody feels like doing social work. For namesake they are saying, we are social worker. But no. If anyone tells me that they are social worker, I won't believe them… Rent comes; we have a rent collection in our office. The girls take care. They have to give the rent between 1st and 10th. If they don't give on 10th and it becomes 11th, then one per cent interest is applied. Why? If you don't pay BEST bill within 7 days, they take 5 per cent interest. Why? 5 per cent! So why I should not collect one per cent? Government collects 5 per cent. Why shouldn't I? I gave you a gap of 10 days. Even then don't give then you give one per cent. All that money goes into the charitable trust.
P: You do lots of work. Different kinds of business.
C: Yes, yes.
P: But primarily, your source of income is your land (rent).
C: Yes, yes, land. This is side income, and that income then goes to the charitable trust.
Rrivu: What is your business?
C: Landlord. 10,000 sq yard (sic) I have. See, here… one society. (Pause and inaudible discussion)
Richa: Basically you are trying to resell your land?
C: Yes, I am going to try to sell.
Richa: It won't come under any of their schemes of sectorisation?
C: Let them give to develop, otherwise you purchase my land. I agree to both.
Richa: What are the 2 options?
C: Let me develop my land, Give development authority, otherwise take it in sale. I am ready to sell it to you.
P: You are ready to move out of Dharavi after 5 years?
C: Yes, yes! No I will be here.
P: But if you sell?
C: Then I will purchase new one!!
P: Inside Dharavi?
C: I have source, no? Income (gestures money with hand) I earn a lot of rupees. I am the owner of 100 crores rupees. Why will I not be here? If I will not be here, who will be here? If a 100 crore men cannot sit here, who will sit here? I will surely be here, for sure. And that too, will compare and be here.
P: You planned that your future generations will be here?
C: Those who want to be here can be here. Those who want to go can go. But the educated have to stay here. These uneducated people stay here and cause a lot of disturbance. Without education, without discipline, how will the society be, if there is no discipline? Education brings discipline. We need discipline. Very important. Even with education if there is no discipline, what is the reason? There is a lot of connection locally.
Richa: So I was just…I was wondering…do you have the option, the authority to re-develop your own land?
C: (Shakes head affirmatively) Yes!
As well as money.
Richa: So people of Dharavi do have the authority to redevelop their land, it is not just selling their land away... To sell your land is one option and to redevelop your own land is another option, for which you do have the authority?
C: Yes, yes. Everybody likes that only.
P: Not only you…others?
C: Yes, yes, everyone. Because I am going to the meeting, no? Everybody is talking there as I am talking…
P: You are asking for such rights, or do you have the rights?
C: No, no, I am asking. We are asking, I am asking.
P: So they have given the rights or?
C: I am ready to leave if they are not ready to give my option, first and second.
P: You are asking for that option, they haven't given you?
C: Yes, they have not given.
Richa: So you are asking for this option from whom?
C: The development officers. The development authorities, you know. The MHADA (Maharashtra Housing and Development authority).
Richa: So what has been the response from their side? What do they say about you asking?
C: They do not help. Whatever application we send, they don't reply. I send the application with my options, but they are not replying.
Even the lack of visibility for women too is attributed to lack of education. The proud owner of property of worth 100 crore makes all sorts of moral statements against neighbours, local politicians, community members without even pausing to think how he has accumulated such wealth. Who can tell him that such wealth can be acquired only in a chaotic structure like Dharavi and Bombay and not under super state structure of Hong Kong and Singapore.
Hong Kong
Singapore
authority
business
charity
college
corruption
discipline
education
government
housewife
interest
languages
maharashtra housing and development authority
mhada
money
penalty
power
redevelop
rent
retirement
sectorisation
social workers
society
studies
syllabus
teachers
tuition
women
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