Slum Bombay: Anil Laul Interview and 4th Asian Congress of Architects (tape10)
Director: Ralli Jacob, Rafeeq Ellias, P.K. Das; Cinematographer: Rafeeq Ellias
Duration: 00:22:09; Aspect Ratio: 1.366:1; Hue: 321.279; Saturation: 0.120; Lightness: 0.081; Volume: 0.070; Cuts per Minute: 2.347; Words per Minute: 59.761
Anil Laul: ...don't really know me.
Q1: Is it okay if we move into the...
Q2: You sound authori...
Interview of Anil Laul.
Anil Laul: See as far as the reaction to their design is concerned, I think they by and large agree that we are respecting their ways of living - even in the jhuggies
(shanties) they are living in small clusters. We are respecting that, so from that point of view I don' think there's been too much resistance. The resistance has been - as I said earlier - is from the ownership of a plot, and the right to build as much as possible, and the right to speculate. But then that negates our very purpose of the development.
Anil Laul: Because then you would have... instead of the jhuggies
(shanties) you would have a pakka
slum - but slum it shall be, either way.
Anil Laul: As far as amenities are concerned - yes they felt why can't we have a window, why can't we have this, why can't we have that - and that can be an endless exercise.
Anil Laul: The aspirations of the people are very high. But when compared to what they've been having earlier, I'm glad to say that the reaction has been very favourable, that they realised that it was something, it was better than anything else they were getting. In fact we have even had reactions from people in the D.D.A. quarters, living right across, saying that this is better than the D.D.A. housing that D.D.A. has provided them. And this is slum area - the slums are getting better houses, or better looking houses, and far more permanent looking and more... better designed than even the D.D.A. houses. They are slums - this is a replacement for slums.
Q1: ...area of space - living space, bathroom space, toilet space,...
Q2: ...like fairly tiled area...
Anil Laul: Well we're very close to the area laid down by the UN. The UN says that you have to give - it was worked out that you have to give about 25 sq mts for a family unit. But the law was that they're allowed to build only 75% which is 18 sq mts. What we've given is 15 sq mts as the livable space, the toilet is common. So if you take all that its about 17 sq mts per family unit.
Anil Laul: But we can't essentially go by the UN norms because the UN norms also stipulates 200 family units per hectare. Now this entire exercise is being done on the assumption that all the people that live in this camp have to be housed as is where is. And the density happens to be 630 dwelling units per hectare. So how can I adopt the UN norms? I have a problem to solve, not norms to meet.
Anil Laul: You know we have to make up our mind. Are we going to live by the norms laid down by somebody outside who does not understand our problems? Or are we actually going to solve the problem? Otherwise its the egg or the hen situation. You know, you say the norms say so... so we can't sort it out. And because the density is so high we have no solution. We end up with nothing at the end of it.
Anil Laul: So I'd rather we even did this and got something going, instead of leaving them in the conditions they are in because we want to adopt the UN norms. And we've got to be pragmatic at the end of it. How are we going to sort out such a large problem?
Akhtar Chauhan: As per the traditions of our country it is our pleasure and privilege to honour our guest. I request our coordinators to get the floral tribute for our chief guest Honourable Union Minister for Development, Thiru Murasoli Maran.
The Indian Institute of Architects Hosts
The 4th Asian Congress of Architects
Theme Architecture Development & Environment
27-29th September, 1990 New Delhi India
Akhtar Chauhan: Mr. S.K. Sharma, Chairman and Managing Director of Housing and Urban Development Corporation which has set many (?) precedents.
Akhtar Chauhan: And for the popular (?) Rusi Khambatta.
Murasoli Maran: ...most of the shortages in the lower income groups, architects of different attitude are required. Architectural education should reorient itself to (?) [...] and (?) requirements. This can only be done by interconnecting ethnical(?) and social disciplines.
Murasoli Maran: Such a change alone can get the architects to play a role of (?).
... S.K. Sharma to deliver the keynote address.
S.K. Sharma: Honourable minister of urban development, president Indian Institute of Architects, distin guished delegates ladies and gentlemen, I thank the organisation of the 4th Asian Congress for Architects for inviting me to deliver this keynote address. I consider this an honour and a privilege.
S.K Sharma: The theme of the congress - Architecture Development and Environment in Asian context, is of vital significance to all of us in the Asian continent. And I congratulate you for selecting this theme. In the desire for all speedy social economic development we often tend to neglect the natural and the built environment. If this conference is able to focus attention on the need to integrate architectural and environmental concerns in the development process it will be a major achievement. Developing countries are facing a major environmental crisis. Poverty and population are exerting tremendous pressures on the environment leading to indiscriminate removal of forest covers, soil erosion and other forms of environmental degradation.
S.K Sharma: While the fuel(?) of the poor and grazing needs of their cattle are leading to depletion of forest cover. The pressure for development itself often becomes exploitative of the natural resources. Major dams which destroy forests and dislodge population have raised environmental controversies. Yet another dimension to the problem is unprecedented growth of urban centres leading to congestion, rise in land values and degradation in human values as the poor in large numbers live in subhuman conditions.
S.K Sharma: What is needed is a balanced, non-exploitative pattern of development in which the people in the backward areas and the poor in other areas share the fruits of economic growth. Thus while environmental resources should be judicially utilised, the benefits of development need to be shared equitably. The issue is not really of development but of sustainable development, proper distribution of incomes. A policy which promotes balanced human settlement pattern would sustain such a development.
S.K Sharma: Rational environmental and city planning should therefore form the basis of social economic development. In this regional and city planners and architects play a key role. The concentration of population in large cities is resulting in escalations in land values, which in turn leading to high cost, high energy systems like high rise building sophisticated transportation systems and extensive(?) water supply and sewage systems.
S.K Sharma: In such an environment the poor find it impossible to get into the formal land market. Construction of more and more housing by the formal sector in the dense settlements instead of solving housing problems further aggravates it. Since the service population which moves in to provide supportive services has no access to the land market and is forced to resort to squatting. Thus to try to solve the housing problems without looking into viral human settlement issues can be a self defeating process.
S.K Sharma: There can be no legitimate housing policy without the framework of a human settlement policy. A sound human settlement policy is sine qua non for balanced development. In many developing counties regional and city planning in architecture are relatively young disciplines. They are still not been given the recognition that they deserve. Town and country planning legislation are actually basic environmental laws, which determine uses to which land may be put and to enforce such uses.
S.K Sharma: Town and country planning provides a basis on which social economic and environmental planning has to be practised. Unfortunately while regional planning hardly gets any attention, town planning organisations are generally inadequately staffed and poorly equipped. A small body of planners are expected to prepare development plans of large and smalls cities, prepare detailed zonal plans, monitor their implementation....