Interview with Gautam Bhatia and Anil Laul (Ralli Jacob, Rafeeq Ellias, P.K. Das)

Interview with Gautam Bhatia and Anil Laul

Director: Ralli Jacob, Rafeeq Ellias, P.K. Das; Cinematographer: Rafeeq Ellias

Duration: 00:21:08; Aspect Ratio: 1.366:1; Hue: 35.585; Saturation: 0.150; Lightness: 0.195; Volume: 0.043; Cuts per Minute: 4.256; Words per Minute: 48.278

Interview with Gautam Bhatia
Interview with Anil Laul (Architect and Urban Planner)

Gautam Bhatia

Gautam Bhatia interview
Gautam Bhatia: Well, I think if you weigh one material against the other, again its not the right way of assessing the situation because in India in any location in any city, no two things are equal. If a client were given a choice between mud and brick, there are far too many other factors which would have to be considered before the fact of choosing one over the other would be thought out. If the client happens to be in Rajasthan in a remote village, mud may be used for 90% of the building. If he happens to be in Kerala... and also in the rural area, you might also have a preference for mud. But again, only as a material which covers the bamboo matting. So its difficult to really say whether one material makes more sense over the other. I think every situation has to be assessed for its own merit.
Interview

Building Centre, Nizamuddin

Anil Laul
Interview

Q: ...in housing. Let's talk about the land situation in Delhi and of the land sharks moving in and how you're combating that in terms of the displacements of the poor in the city.
Anil Laul interview

Anil Laul: Well before we talk about how we are combating that, let's tackle the issue of why the land problem.

Anil Laul: You know I've been working on low cost housing for a long time now and been running all this building centre and various other things, but one realised at the end of it that one can cut down 30% on the cost of construction, which is really chicken feed compared to the land price. Where we're talking about cost of construction of about 140 rupees a sq ft, as opposed to the conventional cost of construction of about 200 or about 180-190 in the EWS. But the main constraint is the land cost. The land cost very often is 3,000 rupees a sq metre. So first thing one we've got to look into apart from low cost housing, you've got to look into low cost land.

Anil Laul: And the main problem in land cost having spiralled the way it has, is primarily to land owning agencies or to government agencies getting into a business which they had no business to be in. They're supposed to be development agencies and not business houses.

Anil Laul: And these days the largest single factor for the price escalation... see the developer got 500 plots of land and they auctioned 5, the highest price becomes the reserved price for the next auction etc and you have a snowball effect, and correspondingly the land prices go up.

Anil Laul: Now much as the public (?) department says that their low cost... that their housing is done at about 200-240 rupees a sq ft, but its incorrect because the public (?) department is showing that they're building it a lower cost. now how could they be building at a lower cost when their overheads are 15%? They float a tender which again the contractor has an inbuilt margin of 15% and all public (?) departments have a 10% built in slush factor.

Anil Laul: Slush money... as I don't know if you understand what I'm talking about, Slush money - that means 40% of the money is written off in that. How could they be doing it at a lower cost? What they're doing is they're selling land at a spiralling... at a fantastically high price and cross subsidising the construction cost or the profits on the land cost only to keep their 10% alive. That 10% to them has become a national priority and that's why you have the problem you have.

Anil Laul: Now... Coming back to the question you asked me as to how we're looking out for the land distribution in the slum areas. The main problem in the slum areas is if you give these people a handout, of say 25 sq mts which was the earlier policy - the intention was that they have a 25 sq mts plot of land, and then 18 sq mts is to be built because 75% is to be built. However all 25 sq mts gets built. When all 25 sq mts gets built, it gives him a 2 room tenement. If it gives him a 2 room tenement, he sells the terrace rights to the local sharks - the property dealers that move in.

Anil Laul: Now their housing is designed for a certain number of dwelling units per hectare. And you find that because the sharks have moved in it goes up to larger number of units per hectare. And then the civic services breakdown and the lieutenant governors lose their job because of faulty planning.

Anil Laul: Now the other factor that attributes to the density growing and therefore the land constraints is... very often you find politicians let vote banks close - these are their potential vote banks and they let the densities grow. They want the densities to grow.

Anil Laul: So where we're going, subsequently to the bhumiheen (landless) camp etc you find that we have worked out planning systems where encroachment is not possible, incrementality for the family is possible. However rentability of another family unit is restricted or negated. So that we say that the family may grow but it must not become a business proposition. We have to delink land from being a business proposition. Land has become the biggest business proposition in the country today. Nowhere in the world is land priced as high as it is in India.

Anil Laul: Today its not worthwhile a person running an industry. Its more lucrative
Anil Laul: Today its not worthwhile a person running an industry. Trading in land is more lucrative than running industry. So why should anybody run anything? Just sit back and get land and wait for the next elections, get another dole(?) out is a much happier situation than having to work.

Anil Laul: So if these plots of land or tenements have to be given to the
Anil Laul: So if these plots of land or tenements have to be given to the economically weaker sections, we want to make sure that they remain worth the economically weaker sections, that they do not become a business proposition for them.

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