Dharavi Tamil Community: Redevelopment for a Congress Worker
Director: Richa Hushing
Duration: 00:46:30; Aspect Ratio: 1.333:1; Hue: 66.249; Saturation: 0.019; Lightness: 0.435; Volume: 0.135; Cuts per Minute: 1.032; Words per Minute: 118.392
Summary: Dharavi is popularly termed as the largest slum in Asia. Known to be one of the densest and most layered human settlements in the world, the origin of Dharavi can be traced back to early 20th Century, at the height of the industrialization in the region. Dharavi is an area, which was originally located at the northern periphery of Bombay, but with boundaries of this ever-growing city constantly extending on all sides it has come to occupy prime location today. Today, according to official records, Dharavi is marked as an area spread over 223 hectares, where as many as 18,000 people crowd into a single acre. A 1986 survey by the National Slum Dwellers Federation (NSDF) counted 530,225 people (106,045 households) living in 80,518 structures. But considering the large number of 'unofficial/illegal' migration influx, the real number of people living in Dharavi is likely to be much more. Home to approximately one million people, Dharavi populace includes diverse language groups, religious communities and economic units. Most of Dharavi's old residents are from interior Maharashtra, Kutch and Kathiawad region in Gujarat and from Kanyakumari, Thirunelveli, Thuthukudi and Nellai districts in Tamilnadu. Currently, Dharavi is in the eye of a storm as the prime land that it occupies needs to be 're-developed' to keep in pace with the economic globalization that is sweeping the city. Bombay, the supposed trade capital of India and India, the media acclaimed neo-Asian tiger of the international market, needs to grab more land and the old fashioned settlement of Dharavi must go in order to facilitate that. Currently the whole settlement - the residents' associations, the govt., the international builders' lobby as well as the civil society in Bombay are engaged in intense debate and complex maneuvering to extract the best possible deal out of this. But the problem is what is best for one economic group can be considered damaging by the other.
Dharavi first came to the light in reference to development and real estate in 1975 during emergency. The Govt. made roads and initiated some development measures in terms of electricity, water supply etc. (roads etc.). Next phase happened in '84-'85 under the aegis of Rajiv Gandhi foundation. In a way that was the first large scale rehabilitation programme. In the next phase in '90s the govt. created an autonomous body as SRA (slum rehabilitation authority) to implement various slum rehabilitation scheme along with independent builders. As the scheme came under severe criticism for charges of corruption, inferior construction quality and its piecemeal development policy, the Govt. formed another body called DRP (Dharavi Redevelopment Project) in 2004.
Following a proposal (valued at Rs. 93 billion -around USD 2.3 billion) by architect Mukesh Mehta, the Govt. has divided Dharavi in five sectors and announced call for tenders to develop each sector from international builders' agencies. The scheme is that profits from the sale of the high-end developments will fund the resettlement of eligible slum dwellers (those who can prove their residence prior to January 1, 1995 which now has been extended to the year 2000) in free 225 sq. ft. (which now has been increased to 269 sq. ft.) flats in multi-story buildings. Developers are also charged with providing some amenities and infrastructural improvements. Though the Govt. declared the names of 19 short listed bidders in January 2008, the whole scheme came under cloud for lack of transparency and absence of proper research. The whole process is stalled at the moment while some organizations are commissioned to conduct some field research on the existing socio-economic structure of Dharavi. Another reason for the 'go slow' policy of the Govt. could be due to impending general election. Most probably the Govt. and specially the ruling party do not want to risk public controversy at this stage.
Following is an interview of a Tamil resident of Dharavi, Mr. Natarajan. Natarajan is a middle level leader of the ruling Congress party and obediently mouths the party line. His disregard regarding the eventual extinction of traditional trades in Dharavi - such as Pottery in Kumbharwada and leather tannery - on the face of development is telling. He could either be just toeing the party position which is known for championing the cause of the builders' lobby or it could be a well be a class issue. Dharavi is a mixed settlement with wage workers, petty traders, artisans, industrial workshops and unorganized sweat shops. For people with jobs outside Dharavi it is only the living quarter and they consider the redevelopment scheme as a boon. While people whose livelihood is related to the unique structure of Dharavi, are resentful to the scheme with the fear that the homogenized urban space design will severely affect their livelihood.
The interview was taken in the shop of their family business of electronic goods in the 90 feet road. From the attic of the same shop his brother runs a cable network which plays programme in all South Indian languages.
Mr. Natarajan is a middle level Congress leader. He has worked his way up. He represents Congress' reach to the non-Marathi speaking migrants in the city. The regional party Shivsena has been aggressively lobbying for the supremacy of the Marathi speaking people in the economic and residential spaces in the city. Their campaign periodically gets directed against migrants from different parts of the sub-continent. In the '60s and '70s it was against the Tamils. In the ' 80 and '90s it was against the Muslims and more specifically against the Bangladeshis. And since 2000 it is against the Hindi speaking people from UP and Bihar. Recently a splinter party of Shivsena called MNS (Maharashtra Mahanirvan Sena) got formed which persuades their chauvinist campaigns even more ferociously than its predecessor. Against this backdrop the migrants and the minorities tend to rally around the Congress. But the centrist Congress party, which has been in power, both in the centre and in the state, for most time since independence has never really done anything pro-actively to secure the rights of the migrants in Bombay. They have primarily capitalised the insecurity of the non-Marathi speaking people in Bombay and converted that into a vote bank. The large slums such as Dharavi and Behrampada are such traditional power base of the Congress. Natarajan talks about the amenities developed during the emergency in 1975-76. The then prime minister Indira Gandhi suspended all democratic institutions and crushed all voices of opposition during the emergency. But like any fascist regime there was an attempt of cosmetic face lifting of the country by way of making roads, running public transport etc.
My name is Natarajan. I came to Bombay in '69. Then, in '72 started my own business...I came to work in a shop first. Then I did my own vegetable business, then egg business, then opened a general store of my own, that is there even now: there are three general stores. I had an inclination towards the Congress party since '72. Madam Indira Gandhi's emergency, etc was really good. There was lot of liquor brewed and sold in Dharavi. There was lot of hooliganism in the Dharavi area then. Because of the migration of our Tamils, there were lots of tanneries here in Dharavi. Even before Independence, during the British Government (it was there).. Then, during partition, since there were mostly Muslims here, they gave away the tanneries to the Tamils and left. Then, Dharavi developed. Before the Emergency, it was just a slum with huts. During the Emergency, madam (Indira Gandhi) got the ------ system to support Dharavi. And inside... roads, pathways, such basic necessities, water, toilet facilities, etc were developed during the Emergency on behalf of the Congress. So, the Congress has an (good) image amongst the public in Dharavi. Specifically, Tamils are, around 80%, only Congress-inclined, always. If you take up Dharavi, Tamils here are from Kanyakumari, Thirunelveli and Thuthukudi (Tutikorin), majority are from these three districts. In that, the Nadars, the Thevars and the Adi Dravidars are the three communities. In the Congress party, I was in the Youth Congress in 1975. Then in 1980-82, came to ----wadi. Since then... I have been Block President since three years, Area Congress Head for Dharavi. I have been in may Government committees. Sanjay Gandhi's Niradhar Anudhan Yoyana, Slum Redevelopment, Government Committee, Rationing Committee... trying to help the public within my means. For Tamils and anyone else. I am Special Executive Officer, that post is also mine. For the past 20 years, since 1982-83 continuously. Helping the public to go to the police station or hospital, help in (approaching the) municipality, such small problems that can be solved by me, I do.
Dharavi
amenities
bangladeshi
campaign
chauvinism
congress
development
dharavi
electoral politics
emergency
identity politics
indira gandhi
infrastructure
maharashtra navnirman sena
migrants
minority
mns
politics
shivsena
slum
tamil
tannery
vote bank
Dharavi has almost 50,000-58,000 jhopdaas (shanties), huts, homes. In these 58,000 there must be at least 3-4 lakhs public. Public in Dharavi is always ----. On Sundays, in the evenings, you can't walk on the roads; it's so crowded. Like a procession. (thiruvizha: name for a village temple fest) If you take the whole of India, the Government of Maharashtra is a very good one, (doing) what no other Government has done. Because they build free homes for struggling people. We at our party build homes for people living on the roads. That is, people who live on the roadside, by the railway tracks... we give them free homes. No other Government in India gives free homes. Looking at it this way, the Maharashtra Government is functioning in a very humanitarian way, helping the people who are struggling, building homes for them, and much more. Sectorisation has come into the Dharavi Rehabilitation scheme. In that, Dharavi has been divided into five sectors. If it succeeds, Dharavi will be... it will be a great city, and the Government (image) amongst the public (will be enhanced)... it's a good plan. Because, though there are basic amenities now, there is no playground, a garden, a hospital or good roads as of now. It is to grant all this that the Government has now brought in the sector system. The public gets free homes, they build free homes on 270 square feet. There is 20 feet interval between buildings, plus in the whole of Dharavi there will be 120 feet roads, 90 feet roads, at least 60 feet roads... there are many such plans. If the sector plan is implemented, it will be a good plan for Dharavi, for Dharavi people. Our MP, Eknath Gaekwad has been an MLA thrice since 1985, now he's an MP. Now, his daughter, Varsha Gaekwad is an MLA. Both of them are very helpful to the public. Anyone can contact him over the mobile phone 24 hours, talk to him whenever one wants, will come anywhere you want him to, such a nice person. Very social; both of them are very active people. They are very helpful to us. As far as the party is concerned, amongst all National parties, it is the Congress Party that embraces people beyond the barriers of caste and creed. Being a part of that party, such thoughts rub off on us too. So, we tell people that we should live together without caste, creed and so, in Dharavi, we are good.
Natarajan repeats the Govt. declaration here. He speaks more as an agent of Congress than as a resident of Dharavi.
Dharavi
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Mumbai
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According to Natarajan the Dharavi redevelopment scheme is a blue print of ideal social welfare state initiative. The builders will not only make buildings but will also create sustainable public facilities in the large area under each sector. This concept of 'sustainable public facility' is the grey area. What would be the guide line of sustainability, how would the livelihood concerns be addressed? How would the gentrification of the area affect the social ecology of the area?
Prathyusha: You were talking about the five sectors right, tell us in detail about it... Tell us about the Government proposals for it.
Natarajan: As regards the development, the Government had called for an international tender. In that, 100 and odd people had filled in forms. The Government has selected 15 people out of it as of now. Out of the 15, 5 people will get it, the 5 sectors, one sector for one person. So, 5 builders will come. Earlier, only 225 square feet was allotted. Carpet area. The public demanded more, asking for 400 square feet. By the Central Government, 270-269 square feet... normally, in the whole of India, there is a law that a house given to a struggling person should be of 270 square feet. It has now been passed. Our MP has spoken to the Chief Minister and has got that law passed here. In the Assembly, our MLA too said everyone in Bombay needs (houses in) 400 square feet. They can't give it specially to Dharavi, as it is under the Maharashtra Government. That is, you can't pass a special scheme for Dharavi. If they bring in any scheme, it is for the whole of Maharashtra. That is how the Government has declared 269 square feet. Now that a lot of public has come (raised its voice?), a builder has to give a 15-year guarantee. Only after 15 years... the building should not have a crack, fading colour until 15 years... when he leaves it in 15 years, it should be as it was in the beginning. That is the scheme they have brought in. Now, there could be more changes to it. They are improving it a lot, as to what else they can do. They deposit 15,000...20,000 rupees on a house in the bank. We have asked to make it 40. (40 thousand).
Prathyusha: Who deposits?
Natarajan: Builder. The builder who takes up the developing, deposits 20,000 rupees in the name of each member under the SRA scheme. The interest from that money will be helpful to us for maintenance expenditure. Because there are people who can't afford to pay hundred rupees rent. Not everyone is struggling; at the same time there are also people who can't afford it. The Government had brought in the scheme for them. We are now asking them to change that and deposit 60,000 rupees per member. Because what they are going to build now is of minimum 14 floors. So, maintenance charges increase. If they deposit 60,000 rupees on one person, the interest will come to 400-500 rupees. Saying they can use it for maintenance, we have given (the proposal) now, it has not been finalised.
Prathyusha: On behalf of the Congress Party?
Natarajan: On behalf of the Congress Party.
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Natarajan knows the general points of worry and is quick to answer them. He claims that 20% of the land would be reserved for commercial/industrial enterprises where the residents of Dharavi will be given preference in employments. He glosses over the fact that many small independent economic units will be destroyed and the people (generally the whole family) will be reduced to wage workers. Besides, such reservation policy in employment will carry seeds of identity conflicts and also possibility of corruption in near future. Natarajan also hopes that every building will have one floor to house these small independent units. But most of these units are extension of their living spaces and attended by the whole family along with the household chores. The solution of an empty floor in each building does not sound viable.
Prathyusha: ... what's your party stand on this? What's your personal stand?
Natarajan: Dharavi Development is our party's stand. Dharavi Sector Yojana has been brought by the Congress Party. We in the Congress Party are placing this demand through our MPs and MLAs. We say make the 20000 into 60,000. if you do that, it will be a bit helpful to us - the public. And, there are many youth in Dharavi without employment opportunities. Now, these cottage industries happen in terraces. So, we need to recreate work opportunities for them, and for that, outsiders... Dharavi is going to have industrial constructions now. Now, around 60% will be taken over by the public. 20% (of the place) will go to roads, garden, hospital and the like for the public. 20% area will be left over. That 20% area, they will develop commercially where pearl factories, diamond cutting factories, etc are coming in and what we are saying is youth from Dharavi should get full preference and outsiders, secondary. The Government has agreed to that. On behalf of our party, this and some more (incentives) for women. And, if the buildings cross 7 or 8 floors, MMRD (Mumbai metropolitan region development authority) in Bombay has a scheme. That is, one floor should be left empty in that building. So, the women who do papad and all that can use that. In each building, one floor would be empty and those using the huts (to run businesses) can do so on that floor. So, some 2-3 schemes... our MP has asked for and the Government has agreed.
Prathyusha: So, you say all these schemes will come in with Development?
Natarajan: They will, yes.
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Prathyusha: The builders who are involved... are you in direct contact with them and the architects or who is the SRA representative?
Natarajan: Maharashtra Government. The Government directly, no one else. Now, a separate IAS (Indian administrative service) officer will be appointed, specially for the Dharavi scheme. The selection is over, it will be declared in 3-4 days. The officer will completely handle it. Then, a small committee will be formed with the local representative. That's our demand now. With the Councilor, MLA... because the public can voice anything they want through them. That will also happen soon.
SRA (slum rehabilitation authority) is a govt. body appointed in 1995 to plan, negotiate and supervise the rehabilitation of slum dwellers into multi-storied buildings. Under SRA independent builders rehabilitate the slum dwellers in newly construct buildings and used the balance area for commercial end. The body has come under serious criticism for its nexus with corrupt builders and favouring unworthy agencies with large projects. It is important to note at this point that the many of the politicians, both in the ruling Congress and BJP and Shivsena in opposition are involved with real estate business.
Dharavi
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Mumbai
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Prathyusha: 240 square feet only can be given. These huts now, what square feet are they?
Natarajan: Very small. 8 by 6. 10 by 15, very few. Around 70% is under 100 square feet.
Prathyusha: What is the Tamils' situation?
Natarajan: Tamils in huts are all in around 100 square feet. Under 100 square feet, they have built one floor above. So, 100 plus 100, they live in 200 square feet.
Prathyusha: What are the prominent jobs and businesses of Tamils here?
Natarajan: in companies...
Prathyusha: They go out to work?
Natarajan: They go out to work... in offices. Unlike earlier, many Tamils are educated now. All the children and families here are very educated. Earlier, from Tamil Nadu, tailors, drivers, helpers came in. now, in the shops which are ran by Tamils, there are no Tamil employee. Only from UP, Bihar. Hotels and shops are run by Tamils, their Chikki factories, preparation of mixtures and such items (snacks) all had Tamils from earlier, but now are full of UP and Biharis. No one comes in from Tamil Nadu now. People who came earlier are here, their children get educated and got into different lines (vocations). From Tamil Nadu, in fact, from all of South, no one comes in.
Prathyusha: You are saying no one ever comes in?
Natarajan: No one, yes. That place (Tamil Nadu) is very well-developed now.
Prathyusha: Those who came then are only...
Natarajan: Yes, only from then. Since 20 years, there has been no one coming in. People are only leaving...
Prathyusha: How many Tamils would you estimate here in Dharavi then?
Natarajan: Lots of Tamils. More than 3-4 lakhs.
Traditionally Dharavi was known for its large Tamil population. But according to Natarajan the flow of migration from Tamilnadu has reduced substantially due to industrial development in the South. As the second generation Tamilians have opted for jobs outside Dharavi their livelihood is not specifically related to Dharavi. So the proposed development and concretization of the living quarters seem desirable for them.
Bihar
Dharavi
Mumbai
Tamilnadu
Uttar Pradesh
dharavi
dwelling
educated
industrial development
middle class
migrants
migration
populace
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progress
redevelopment
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working class
workshop
Prathyusha: You say the Tamils have grown, they do their own businesses...
Natarajan: Yes...
Prathyusha: For them, how helpful will this development plan be?
Natarajan: For anybody, someday, an area should develop. Earlier, Dharavi was very bad. Now, the Government can't develop these hutments any more. In the SRA scheme, they give (homes) of 225 square feet. But the construction is not good. The builders to whom the construction is given do not do a good job. In just 10-25 years... that is, within 2-3 years of construction, cracks appear in the building. That is why the Government has brought in the sector plan. There is hope that the Government (will get) a good builder and build good buildings. Secondly, the public has expectations. Everyone wishes that they stay in buildings too. That the Government is giving them buildings... because if we to buy a building now, the rates are 5000-6000 (rupees). The rate in Dharavi is now Rupees 6500... one square foot.
So, not everyone can buy. Taking all this into consideration, the public is happy that the Government is giving them buildings on 270 square feet. Majority are happy. Businessmen will be slightly unhappy. Because, they are thinking if they will get what they have right now, will they have to move in the sector... there will be dissatisfaction. But they can't say that aloud, as majority of the public want it (the sectors). So, 5% saying they don't want it, will not hold. So, it is a good plan.
Under SRA general scheme a slum settlement is handled by one appointed builder. Many of the SRA buildings turned out to be unlivable. The former slum dwellers often carry on their old livelihood practices within the stipulated 225 square feet dwellings. As a result the cluster of houses in each floor could house a catering unit, a tailors workshop, a music duplication unit, a welding workshop and so on along with the living quarters. The air remains heavy with the smell and the sound emitting out of the workshops. Secondly, in most cases the inhabitants fail to pay for the essential maintenance of the multi-storied buildings. So after the initial phase the lift gets closed; electricity, water supply get stopped and the compound remain unwashed. The elderly and the children are forced to climb to 7th or 8th floor. In short, the building becomes a vertical slum, only much worse than the earlier one. In some other cases the original inhabitants sell or rent it out to middle class migrants and shift out to another 'illegal' slum.
amenities
aspiration
builder
building
construction
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electricity
facilities
government
inhabitants
lift
living quarters
maintenance
majority
middle class
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price
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real estate
redevelopment
sector
slum
slum rehabilitation authority
square feet
sra
vertical
water
workshops
Natarajan explains the loop holes of the SRA scheme. The scheme has become a hub of speculative business of the real estate. Many builders take on a slum rehabilitation project in low paying area and do not build up to the FSI (floor space index) that they are entitled for. Then they use the TDR (transfer of development rights) provision to transfer the rights to build in some expensive plots . Thus they make much more profit from the SRA scheme than what it actually meant to be. According to Natarajan the sector-wise scheme, which the Govt. has floated for Dharavi will plug all these loop holes. In the sector scheme no builder will construct one or a cluster of buildings. Instead they will be responsible for developing a large area which would include housing complexes, markets, roads, parks, industrial areas, health and academic institutions. Further they would also be responsible for the maintenance of the place for next 15 years. The builders' agency will also be liable to negotiate with the original residents and get their consensus. Natarajan is absolutely sure of the merit of the scheme.
Prathyusha: Explain difference between SRA and sectors.
Natarajan: Maharashtra Government brought in the SRA scheme. In the beginning, they gave 180 square feet. During the time of Rajiv Gandhi. The second Government, the Congress Government made that 225 feet. Now, about SRA, there are hutments somewhere. They can form their own society. 50 people, 200 people, 100-200 people can come together, form a sort of co-operative society, register it there and give it to them, and what do they do? We can choose our own builder, nominate him and the SRA gives permission to the builder. He builds and hands it over to us and gets TDR (Transfer of Development Rights - under this scheme a builder can transfer his right to build from one area to the other in the southern suburb. This clause has brought in many malpractices) out of it... Normally, a builder earns many crores even if he builds a 50-hut settlement. In that, they gave the Secretary, leader something and helped. Now, the Government has brought in sectors. This, we can't do anything independently.
Prathyusha: You said no Tamils, South Indians have come in for 20 years. Why so? Because the first people who came in here were Tamils...
Natarajan: Tamils, right. But, the reason is, what is happening in Tamil Nadu now? Take Nellai district, Thuthukudi, Kanyakumari districts have developed well post-2000. After development, all households educate their children. Earlier, it was that all of us came to Bombay when we were 10, 15, 16. We could not study there... no money to...
Prathyusha: How old were you when you came here?
Natarajan: 16 years. Our family couldn't educate us, it was difficult and so we came to Bombay for work. Families there now educate their children at any cost. So, after education, they take up good jobs there itself. So, they don't come to Bombay, that's the reason.
Dharavi
Kanyakumari
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Mumbai
Nellai
Tamilnadu
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migration
negotiation
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Prathyusha: There are wards in Dharavi. How will they manage wards and sectors, which ward in which sector? How many wards does Congress have?
Natarajan: Congress has 5 wards in Dharavi...one Shivsena...
Prathyusha: And totally, how many wards...
Natarajan: Six in Dharavi.
Prathyusha: Out of which Congress has five?
Natarajan: Yes.
Prathyusha: Now, how do they plan which sector has which ward?
Natarajan: They haven't done sectors (based) on wards. They have taken a package, from a certain area till the other side of the road. They have made such area as one sector. Roughly, you see, 15,000 houses make one sector.
Prathyusha: How are wards divided?
Natarajan: On two basis. One is slum area. The other is Reserve Area. Reserve. Like SC (scheduled caste), only in Maharashtra - SC candidate can contest there for the Councilor post. Only two wards are general. Four wards are for them. So, when the wards are divided they put SCs together, like that. And maximum 35,000-40,000 votes in one ward. The criteria is number of votes. So, maximum 40, 45, 46 (in thousands), like that...
Prathyusha: So, there is no connection between the ward and the sector. They are separate.
Natarajan: Yes. No connection. They are separate.
Wards are administrative division. Municipality elections are fought ward-wise. Whereas the sectors are divided according to the spatial uniformity and would be designed and developed accordingly. In Dharavi there are also segregation according to occupational identity such as Kumbharwada (potters' colony), Koliwada (fisermen's colony) etc.
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Natarajan categorically denies any possibility of gentrification of the area due to the development scheme. He thinks not more than 20% of the original inhabitants would leave the area after the development. But earlier experiences of similar development scheme show that it lead to gentrification and eventual displacement (though voluntary in some sense) of the poor people. Secondly, Dharavi is already described as a health hazard due to density of population. But under the development scheme the density will increase even further (as the high-end development will bring in more populace in the area).
Prathyusha: Generally, there are chances of people selling what they get and moving away when slums are developed. Will that happen in Dharavi?
Natarajan: Maximum, 20% will move. Even now, the people in huts are going. Even when they are in huts now, around 20% people keep changing in a year. Everyone. Not just Tamils, but also Maharashtrians, UP-ites. What they do is- their son is getting married, they have some problem, they have retired, they are running a business and are now old- so they move and while moving, they sell it off to someone else. The same with buildings. They get a certain amount of money when it is a building. In the SRA scheme, a house sells for 15 lakhs. So, these people who have lived in huts just go back home when they can get 10-15 lakhs....
Prathyusha: Back home?
Natarajan: Home. Some people go out of this place. They buy houses in better places. There are various situations.
Prathyusha: So, that will...
Natarajan: Happen. 20% will go away.
Prathyusha: No great change because of that?
Natarajan: No great change.
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Mr. Natarajan has an answer to each and every problem.
Prathyusha: People work out of their homes. Now, you spoke about the 20% (commercial). The area for home is concrete, but not work. What is the position on that? That this space should be given to them for business, to work?
Natarajan: Yes, we have spoken about that. There is the commercial area... there are shops on this main road, and so they must be given space here only. We passed this in the minutes, as first priority. One...
Prathyusha: And they agreed?
Natarajan: They did. People have shops on 90 foot, Dharavi Main Road, and they have to be given there, on that road. Residences can change within a sector. We can adjust. Commercial places are priority, so we have pushed it a bit more. No problem. But shops must be given at that exact spot on that road. Apart from that, there are the Chikki factories, factories that does work with fire... they will have spaces built within Dharavi somewhere.
Prathyusha: Are they like that now? Together?
Natarajan: No, no. Now it's a mix.
Prathyusha: Won't they have settled themselves there over the years? Won't the change be difficult?
Natarajan: No, the shop will be the same. Only the factories will be put together as much as possible. Garments in one spot, Tamilians have a lot of printing presses, garments, idli business, chikki and other business. All this will be together, in separate units. This has been spoken of.
Prathyusha: What is their response to that?
Natarajan: They agreed. But, some people who run rented places are asking for something. But the Government is refusing.
Prathyusha: People who run shops in rented places?
Natarajan: Yes. People running shops in rented places want something out of the scheme too. But the Government says no, when we can't give those who own, how can we give you?
Prathyusha: Then, what will they do?
Natarajan: Rent again.
Prathyusha: But, the rents will go up post-development.
Natarajan: They will. They will.
Prathyusha: So, it's difficult for them.
Natarajan: It is.
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Prathyusha: What's your idea?
Natarajan: if they don't have place here, they will prepare (the products) somewhere else and then bring it here. That's what will happen.
Prathyusha: So, factories will change place...
Natarajan: Yes, chances are.
Prathyusha: About the 400 feet proposal, that will not happen right? No house for 400 square feet?
Natarajan: That won't happen. Government has said so. The CM has announced, right? 269, final.
Prathyusha: No more changes?
Natarajan: No more changes. Done. Our MLA, Varsha Gaekwad, spoke a lot in the Assembly that you needed (houses) of 400 square feet. CM said no, no more, only 269 square feet. One bedroom, one kitchen, one hall. It's good. We will now place it amongst the public.
Prathyusha: The model?
Natarajan: The model.
Prathyusha: Where?
Natarajan: We have told the officer just now, to give us the model of how the scheme will be. We will put it in 5 places in Dharavi.
Prathyusha: And then, you said 15,000 houses one sector... how was that divided?
Natarajan: So many acres... 15-20 acres one sector.
Prathyusha: Oh, so 5 sectors will cover the whole of Dharavi?
Natarajan: The whole of Dharavi will be covered.
There is one thing though - the Govt. and the politicians of today must go through an elaborate exercise of democratic consensus building with the public. Gone are the days when people could be taken completely for granted. Whether the information that is provided to the people is adequate or the promises would be followed accurately or under cover arm twisting will take place in future or not - so far the Govt. stands answerable to the public.
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Prathyusha: ...you said that 5% will not be happy about the development? In that 5%, who do you think profits more or looses more? Which community will be affected most?
Natarajan: No community will be affected. Not on the community level. In some houses, people live below and rent the space above. You can't do that there.
Prathyusha: For rent?
Natarajan: You can, but then you have to give the whole house right? Two families can't live in the same flat with one key. So, they will be slightly affected. Otherwise... And people like that will sell and move. They will give it away and move, that's what will happen.
Prathyusha: And businessmen? Will not the people in various businesses be affected?
Natarajan: Nothing like that. That's why we are clearing one complete floor for them in each building, right?
Prathyusha: That will surely happen?
Natarajan: Surely.
Prathyusha: They have agreed to it or...
Natarajan: They have; these are all MHADA (Maharshtra Housing and Development Authority) rules. Maharashtra Government, building built over 8 floors should have this (one empty floor) as a rule.
Prathyusha: How many buildings will be over 8 floors?
Natarajan: there could be 14 floors.
Prathyusha: In all buildings?
Natarajan: All buildings. Because, 225 (sq.ft) was what we had first given. The plan then was 10 floors. Now, it's 270 (sq.ft). So, number of floors should be increased, right? No other go. 14 floors.
Prathyusha: Minimum?
Natarajan: Minimum 14 floors.
The intricacies of the issue - the rental accommodation, the workshops, the homogenization of vertical housing... Multi-storied housings essentially create a homogenized life style. How will the heterogeneity of Dharavi be maintained within such structures. Even if people are given all power to negotiate could it be possible? Who will be made to pay the price?
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Prathyusha: You have been here 40 years. Dharavi would have changed so much.
Natarajan: Sure it has.
Prathyusha: there has been lot of development. But apart from that, what development do you think is needed or is happening? What sort of development do you need?
Natarajan: The Government is giving us what we desire. Under SRA, we the public was proposing and forming societies and doing the work. Because the quality was not good, the Government is now taking it into the sector way. We the public have accepted it whole-heartedly. Development will happen automatically. Because the Kurla-Bandra Complex is near-by. It joins Dharavi. It's good for business in Dharavi and the more outside public come in. Earlier, Dharavi had a bad image, now gradually that has changed to a good image. Once the sector is in place... Dharavi is central in Bombay. We can go anywhere from here. All stations are close by. Also, near-by, that over-bridge... our MP had come just now, Ratnakar Gaekwad, that is, the MMRDA director etc had come. Because of over-crowding in Dharavi, they are doing the overbridge in Mahim station today. (inaugurating?) There are many such schemes. Dharavi is developing all right.
Prathyusha: But, apart from buildings, what sort of development?
Natarajan: Apart from buildings, we need gardens, playgrounds, hospitals, schools, good colleges, Take Sion or Mahim, people from Dharavi abound the schools and colleges. But the trouble we have to take for admissions is enormous. The poor public here... now, for a month, I have to run after the SIES college. For each admission. They come to me, you have to take the MLA, the MP, or they ask for too much money. Such problems. If there is a college, school inside, what our MP has asked is that Dharavi children should be given preferential 50% admission. Big people, like Ambani might bring in schools, college here.
Prathyusha: Inside?
Natarajan: It's coming in here, under the sector scheme. In that too, we are asking for 50% Dharavi (reservation) compulsorily. Only after that can you give outsiders (a seat).
Prathyusha: At any level? 12th standard...
Natarajan: In anything. Even if it's an engineering college, we need 50%.
Prathyusha: Post-graduate too?
Natarajan: Yes. We are demanding that. Now the Government has to decide what is to be done.
Prathyusha: Demand on behalf of the Congress?
Natarajan: Yes.
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The business of Education is a big thing in contemporary India. It is likely that the left over space after the housings be bought by the corporate sectors to open schools and colleges. These are likely to be high-end institutions. Even if there are reservations how will the children of original inhabitants of Dharavi pay the fees to these institutions? Will the 50% reservation be free or highly concessional too? Why then the Ambanis or other private institutions will be interested in such a project? Secondly, even if 50% seats in such elite institutions are given free to children from the working class in Dharavi and the rest to the upper class students from outside - what kind of class hostility would that make for? Bandra-Kurla complex in the vicinity of Dharavi is the newly-developed 2nd business district of Mumbai. The avant garde buildings in the complex house several multi-national corporations. Obviously the shanties of Dharavi needs to go in order to accommodate the growing needs of the establishments in BKC.
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Prathyusha: Many people go in for higher education on loans. That might need property security, but Dharavi property is not given value.
Natarajan: there is nothing now, right; earlier no one had any (property). As far as Dharavi is concerned, few people take a loan for education. The kids graduate, but use their own money.
Prathyusha: But, to study higher, you need loans.
Natarajan: You might.
Prathyusha: So, loans against Dharavi property are less.
Natarajan: it might be given after flats come in, right.
Prathyusha: they will give then, you think?
Natarajan: They will, they will.
Prathyusha: Anything on that by the Congress Party?
Natarajan: No. Only after you asked me now that I get the idea.
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Prathyusha: ... processions saying that there should be no development. Have you seen any like that? How many have been there?
Natarajan: Two days... ah... there was one procession...
Prathyusha: How many have been there since the plan was announced?
Natarajan: One day they took out a procession, then they held 2-3 meetings.
Prathyusha: The activists?
Natarajan: The morcha (procession) happened only once, that's it. Then they held meeting to address the public. Then, we countered with our meetings. We told the public that they are misdirecting you, they are against development, that Dharavi shouldn't develop. What many leaders think now is that, Councilors think... the funds can't be spent by them. Every year, the budget provisions 40-50 lakhs for each ward... so they get upto 1-2 crores. After this (the development), the money will not come, so they think let it not develop. There are such people in every party. We were told by our higher-ups that such thoughts are wrong. We will talk only for the public good, and the public are now ok (with the scheme).
Prathyusha: How many meetings do they hold?
Natarajan: Lots. Next, the CM is coming. Tomorrow, our MP is asking for an appointment. In another 10 days, we will hold a public meeting about the sectors.
There are many agencies - such as independent town planners, architecture institutions, urban activists and also some residents of Dharavi - who are engaged in the debate. They not necessarily oppose the development scheme as that would be an impossible and unpopular task. But they are demanding more transparency, more negotiation and a participatory process. Those voices are being dubbed as anti-development by the pro-development lobby. But as Natarajan says, there could also be some people whose economic interest - in the form of aid to Dharavi - is likely to be affected by the development scheme. They could also infiltrate the civil society movement against homogenizing development. The whole debate also might get hijacked by the electoral politics between political parties.
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Prathyusha: What do they say at such meetings? What points do they have against development?
Natarajan: they don't ask for the public good. First we said, until 2000, property ownership will stand. They (opposition) said, we were cheating them (the public) and that it (ownership) ends in 1995. (this is in reference to the cut off year for valid residency). Now, the Government has declared it, they are asking for 2004. For the opposition, to stay alive they need to say something amongst the public...
Prathyusha: I don't understand. 2000-2004. What is given?
Natarajan: In Maharashtra, huts built post 1995 have no official sanction here...
Prathyusha: 1995...
Natarajan: 1995... that was the law; only until then, new accommodations will be given to people who came by that time.
Prathyusha: Even now? Final?
Natarajan: Even now, outside Dharavi. Only for Dharavi, we got it okayed for till 2000. Another thing that we have done is, many people here are bachelors and have houses that they have rented out. They work somewhere, rent out their houses and live together in bunches of 10 and 20. They don't have a voter list or a ration card. So, we argued with the Government and now, wherever they have been in Bombay till 2000, it's valid (their right of residency in Dharavi) when they show the proof. They will be part of the scheme.
Prathyusha: They (opposition) take that as a point against?
Natarajan: No. They don't.
Prathyusha: Then what did you say, 2004?
Natarajan: They are saying give it to huts (built) till 2004.
Prathyusha: In Dharavi?
Natarajan: Yes. They just want to find fault with the government, oppose the scheme - the opposite party.
Prathyusha: I get it. Any other shortcomings they say?
Natarajan: they are saying why we are awarding tenders to international builders, why not local? Builders here use sand/mud, that's why it's being given outside.
Prathyusha: SRA was by local builders, right?
Natarajan: Yes. Local. It was not done well.
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Lonavala is a sleepy town on the Sahyadri hills between Bombay and Pune. The Maharashtra Government, according to Natarajan, is now planning to build houses there to rehabilitate the poor people who would get displaced by various development schemes. It is really a hobson's choice. People had migrated to Bombay as all the economic developments have been concentrated here. They composed the main working force to the city till the time it was an industrial city. Now in the post industrial era this work force is not required anymore. Instead the service city of contemporary Bombay needs more middle class workers. So the working class is displaced to make space for service industries, market outlets and related work force. So the Govt. is planning to re-house the working class in neighbouring small towns - from where they had migrated in the first place in search of livelihood. What would this rehabilitation, without any source of livelihood, mean to the displaced people? What will be the anatomy of Bombay city after the exodus of the working class?
Prathyusha: 264 square feet is sanctioned right...
Natarajan: 269...
Prathyusha: 269... are you satisfied?
Natarajan: Satisfied.
Prathyusha: Because you had asked for 400, got only 269...
Natarajan: the Government is giving its best. They tell us, they can't do anything special for Dharavi, whatever is to be done, it is the same law, same act all over Maharashtra. If a GR (Government Resolution) is passed, it's for the whole of Maharashtra. So, we can give only so much, not any more. There's only so much space. If we pull rubber too much (elastic), it will break after a certain point. Likewise, if we are adamant, it won't happen.
Prathyusha: So, you are happy with 269?
Natarajan: Yes, yes, we told the public...
Prathyusha: That is you are satisfied? Whole-heartedly?
Natarajan: Yes. Yes.
Prathyusha: Ok, you said people with rented business spaces will have a problem. But, people in rented houses, they won't get anything too, right? Like you said the bachelors have rented out their houses, there must be a family on rent there.
Natarajan: Yes. They will have a problem.
Prathyusha: Any ideas for them?
Natarajan: Yes. The government has. CM has just said, in yesterday's meeting, that 5 lakh houses will be built by 2009. that is, first they are building 5000 houses in Lonavla. The Government (gives it to) people who can show proof of residence in Bombay for 15 years. They will take a deposit, say 1000 rupees rent, so a year's rent, 12,000 as deposit and give it to them.
Prathyusha: People from here in Lonavla?
Natarajan: From anywhere? There is space only there now. No empty space in Bombay.
Prathyusha: but people working here?
Natarajan: Trains.
Prathyusha: So, you say you have plans for that also?
Natarajan: Yes. Now, there's a place being built near Thana too. Near Bombay, just around in certain places. He (CM) has said 5 lakh houses by 2014.
Prathyusha: So, the party is satisfied?
Natarajan: Yes.
Prathyusha: Or any other scheme for that in your mind?
Natarajan: Nothing else can be done. Everything has been reclaimed and huts have been built. Same sector scheme is going to come all over Bombay. So, no space in Bombay. No open spaces for the public. So, the government is constructing houses where there is space and giving it to them.
Prathyusha: even then, all those who lost their houses will not get them back right? Some will have to fend for themselves...can we guarantee that all those displaced will get a house?
Natarajan: all those here with houses will get houses.
Prathyusha: Surely?
Natarajan: Sure.
Prathyusha: That's in the resolution or it's your hope?
Natarajan: We have hope.
Prathyusha: So, you will place a proposal for that too?
Natarajan: We already have. That's why we asked for all-over Bombay, till 2000. Because some might not have their names in the voters' list...
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It seems the Govt. is using its party machinery more than the Govt. agencies to build a public opinion in favour of the redevelopment scheme.
Prathyusha: You said, you had the proposal, after 2000 and all that, people in rented houses getting it too, please repeat just that once.
Natarajan: the Maharshtra Government is immediately building 5000 houses near Thana. A 200 square feet house is being built for people who have been in Bombay for 15 years, at 1000-1500 rupees rent. They will be given the houses after giving a year's rent as deposit. They will have to renew it annually. This scheme, readied by the Maharashtra government for the poor, has also been okayed.
Prathyusha: This is Government proposal or...
Natarajan: We in the party from Dharavi asked for this, and the CM declared it.
Prathyusha: there are some doubts about the development scheme amongst the public. How do you think you can reduce that and make them understand?
Natarajan: we tell them through (street) corner meetings. We are in contact with the public through the Councilor and the party workers and work with their faith.
Prathyusha: So, your party workers are telling everyone?
Natarajan: Yes. In contact with the public.
Prathyusha: apart from meetings, what do you do? Because, the doubts and the dissent seem to be building up into one big voice.
Natarajan: That is there. They are frightening the public that they won't be given a place in Dharavi, and that they will be pushed out. We have explained to them, and they trust us. Tamils trust us to an extent that we are also in Dharavi right, if they have to go, so do we. So, how will we allow them to be cheated? So, we are strong and tell them that they will surely be in Dharavi and not to listen to false propaganda.
Prathyusha: So, you do meetings and party workers go place-to-place...
Natarajan: And talk to people, and we hold meetings too.
Prathyusha: You say the party workers talk to the people, convince them... who are those that have contributed?
Natarajan: There are many in the Congress.
Prathyusha: In Dharavi?
Natarajan: Many in Dharavi.
Prathyusha: How many?
Natarajan: There must be thousand plus of our party in Dharavi.
Prathyusha: You don't remember anyone specifically?
Natarajan: Many. Mahalingam, Arunachalam, Balasubramaniam who runs a studio, many good workers in our party.
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Prathyusha: Anyone who contributed lots into Dharavi coming to your mind right now?
Natarajan: I don't understand.
Prathyusha: No... any service or task that someone did with regard to talking to the public...who comes to mind at once?
Natarajan: It is these small builders with the SRA who paid money and spurred on the opposition. They don't want sectors to come in. Because they won't get it. Our workers are sacrificing there. Many of our workers have formed societies as chief promoters. Take Mahalingam anna. (big brother) He had undertaken and built 600 houses in the Rajiv Gandhi Co-operative society. Now, he's leaving it for the sectors, that's good, right? If the promoters go into SRA, the builders give them an amount, shop- house. They won't get it here. Yet, they leave it all for the people.
Prathyusha: So, lots like that?
Natarajan: Lots.
Prathyusha: Anything you would like to say? Maybe I didn't ask you a question and you wanted to say something...
Natarajan: No, nothing.
Prathyusha: Any message?
Natarajan: For us, Dharavi scheme is a good scheme. I have told you about sectors to the best of my knowledge.
Under the previous SRA (Slum Rehabilitation Authority) scheme it is the smaller and local builders who were getting contracts. But the sector development policy in Dharavi needs large infrastructure and financial capacity on the part of the builders. Besides the tender is called at the international level. So obviously it is a big game and the local small fries are pushed out. According to Natarajan, these smaller builders are lobbying against the redevelopment scheme. Natarajan accepts that many of the Congress leaders too are small scale builders and made business out of the SRA scheme. Though he denies any involvement on their parts in sabotaging the Govt. proposal. Obviously the economic aspects of the issue are much more complex and murky than it appears to be.
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