CCTV Social: Day I Session 5. 4 pm.
Cinematographer: Shaina Anand
Duration: 00:13:50; Aspect Ratio: 1.366:1; Hue: 203.940; Saturation: 0.021; Lightness: 0.240; Volume: 0.095; Cuts per Minute: 16.981; Words per Minute: 193.082
Summary: For CCTV Social, artist Shaina Anand collaborated with Manchester Metropolitan University and Arndale Shopping Centre to open working CCTV environments to a general audience. People normally 'enclosed' by these networks came into the control rooms to view, observe and monitor this condition, endemic in the UK. About thirty people signed up for one-hour sessions in the MMU security center to engage with the CCTV operators and monitor surveillance procedures. These sessions became somewhat like a diagnostic clinic, where we discussed symptoms, anxieties and inoculations about our 'public health,' under surveillance. These therapy sessions seemed to work both ways, for the participants as well as the security officers.
At 4 pm, a young man and woman came in and started a conversation that considerably changed the dynamics of the room. They began by questioning CCTV's near total inefficacy when it came to preventing violent crime. Joe and Steve got defensive, and stated that they were the first people in the day who had such obvious issues with video surveillance and began speaking about actual crime in the estates and suburbs. When it turned out that both Joe and the participants lived in Moss Side, 'one of the roughest neighbourhoods around,' the discussion shifted towards policing versus community support. Daniel said that the only way to effective crime control was if the police officers had personal relationships with the community or neighbourhood they policed.
SA in conversation with Steve, a surveillance control officer at the Manchester Metropolitan University. Rows of numbered screens, displaying live feed from CCTV cameras, line the walls of the surveillance control room. The dichotomy of security and privacy is essentially a battle between liberty and control.
Shaina: What has changed in, let's say ten years, in terms of briefings or changes from the
law? Cause clearly, I mean, in ten years security worldwide has undergone such a change. We're a way more paranoid and fearful society as well. You know post...
Steve: I think, to be honest with you, I think it's made security more paranoid as well. Not just in here but in general, because it's always the case of... With all the laws and legislations that are coming out, it's a case of cover your own back before anything. And that can get in the way sometimes, to be honest with you.
Shaina: Yeah, yeah.
Steve: It's too much clutter to actually. It's like, can I do this? Can I do that? People should be allowed to get on with it. I mean, obviously you don't want too much invasion of privacy, and you know people do abuse the system. But there is too much cluttering it up, to be honest with you.You've got to constantly justify everything you do.
(Phone rings)
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Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
Footage of SA in conversation with Steve. SA talks about the "Orwellian" state of UK security and surveillance. Steve responds with the generic "If you're not doing anything wrong what do you have to hide?" response.
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Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
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Shaina: It's really interesting though. New York city has only - also being a paranoid big city - has only 3000 cameras. This is what I heard; that London has half a million.
Steve: Hmmn.
Shaina: And New York has 3000.
Steve: It's actually been around since the 60's, innit?
Shaina: Really? Wow!
Steve: Yeah, to some extent. There was a program on Channel 4 not long back. And I'm sure mid-sixties it started to take off, up to... I mean, my way of looking at it, and I don't know if Joe will agree - you're only paranoid about CCTV if you've done something wrong - that's the way I look at it. People who are paranoid about CCTV, it's only because they are hiding something or maybe they... If you're not up to no good and you're just going about minding your business, then what's your problem?
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Ashok: Do you often also do preventive...?
Shaina: Oh look, it's a bug!
Steve: I'm gonna shock him.
Shaina: With the wiper!
Steve: It's not working. Come on, off you go. Off you go. Get off!
Shaina (Laughs): That's funny.
Shaina: The wiper's stuck. They have screen wipers.
Ashok: If you turn it really fast...
Shaina: Pan it around. Swish.
(Camera rotates)
Steve: He ran away.
Shaina: Aww! That's funny.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
Shaina points to a screen numbered 12. The camera pans left. There is a bug on one of the cameras. Steve tries to scare it off using the camera "wiper." The bug gets out of the range of the wiper but stays put on the camera lens. Steve rotates the camera and the bug flies away.
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Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
SA introduces Daniel and Roissin to Steve. The "watched" came into the surveillance control room to view and observe the "process" and the "watchers."
Related Links:
CCTV cameras do not cut crime after all.
Shaina: So Steve, we have some more friends.
Steve: Hello!
Shaina: Roissin and Daniel.
Steve: Sit yourself down.
Shaina: Why did you sign on to come in here?
Daniel: I'm just interested to see how... Well, I'd like to know where all the cameras were, so when I commit a crime I'll make sure that I'm not in the visible point where...
Steve: The nature of it is that the word gets around between the local lads, those who are up to...
Roissin: Do you think that that means that there is less crime? Or there's just less crime in front of the camera?
Steve: I couldn't tell you that, statistics will have to tell you otherwise. But maybe it's a deterrent in this area to some extent. It could stop people from committing a crime in this area. Can it be a good thing or a bad thing? Does it push into areas where there is no CCTV?
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CCTV in Zurich
Daniel: Every time I see the police officers on the news, they are always going on about "how it's gonna stop this and stop that." And how we need to increase it.
Steve: It will "help prevent;" that's what they're saying.
Daniel: Yeah, help prevent. Same thing.
Steve: No, but the thing is it does. It does help prevent. It will never... Nothing will ever totally prevent it.
Roissin: But how much is help prevent? Help prevent like ten percent?
Shaina: And you were saying this earlier that only people who have, who are up to no good or have something to fear, or are doing something wrong are the people who should have a problem with CCTV, and not everybody else. Cause if I'm not doing anything wrong, then I should feel okay being within this constant gaze.
Roissin: Just the fact that they are there makes me uncomfortable.
Shaina: Yeah, exactly.
Steve: But you have to look at it that way - it's there for a reason, to help...
Roissin: I appreciate what people think it does.
Joe: It's not to watch you personally.
Roissin: I know it's not about me, but it does actually make me, not necessarily want to commit crime, but the fact that people are in my business makes me almost, want me to have some business.
Joe: I mean, to be fai,r we met a lot of people. I spoke to a lot of people today since I've been on duty and you're the first person said that you are uncomfortable with it.
Roissin: Oh, I appreciate that I might be in the absolute minority; there might only be like three people in the whole city who feel the way that I do, though I doubt that's the case. But there is just something about the fact that I'm being watched, I'm not being trusted. I might feel as though I'm trustworthy and that bothers me.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
The "watchers" field questions about the effectiveness of CCTV as a preventative measure.
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privacy
risk
security
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Daniel: I mean this idea... Just the concept of safety, and fire, and that kind of stuff. But as far as violent crimes go, I don't think it works. And it's a system that's here to protect us and you know... right, right, right. But it's forced on us and that's my problem with it. Like, I'm not saying I've got something to hide but at the same time I don't want to be filmed, cause...
Steve: It's like I know what you're saying with regards to violent crime; if someone wants to give you a good hiding they will give you a good hiding.
Daniel: Regardless where...
Steve: Regardless of where. You could have a thousand cameras looking at you, but if they're gonna do it, they are gonna do it. You'll never get rid of violent crimes to that extent.
Daniel: You'll never get rid of any crime. What I see good for CCTV is for like business safety, protecting shit like... You know, like...
Roissin: Businesses where you can see people come in.
Daniel: Protecting money, that's what's good; that's what I see it's good for. Protecting money.
Steve: We've stopped people being attacked on the streets. I can assure you that's worthwhile.
Daniel: No, I'm not saying it doesn't. That's the thing. But I'm just saying that it works best for protecting money.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
There is a discussion regarding the effectiveness of CCTV.
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Ashok: You mean protecting something that's static; anything...
Joe: Property!
Roissin: Yes.
Daniel: I think as far as personal... People; it's a personal thing. I just don't think it will work very well.
Steve: But where do you draw the line? Which one would you rather have - somebody trying to break into a bank, or somebody trying to break a person's jaw on the street? Which would you prevent... try to prevent the most?
Roissin: People getting hit.
Joe: Okay! Thank you! Say no more.
Roissin: No, I appreciate that. That...
Steve: When a bank gets robbed, a bank doesn't cry or get traumatised. In my mind...
Joe: Banks are insured; members of the public are not.
Roissin: But I think that CCTV works a lot better for the banks, and does that job almost a hundred percent.
Joe: But you just agreed with us on one point and now...
Roissin: No, no, I don't disagree with why you do your job and what you take job satisfaction from. Of course it's not going to be simply about protecting banks. Nobody likes banks. But I think that somewhere higher up the decision to do this to every city has been made by banks, and by money, and the occasional person who gets a conviction, or doesn't get attacked because of the camera, it's just a fringe benefit. I think it's not what it's here for, not really.
Steve: It is, around here.
Joe: It is, around here.
They discuss the effectiveness of CCTV and the reasons it has become so prevalent.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
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City Centre
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Joe: How long have you been in Manchester?
Roissin: Most of my life.
Joe: How long is that?
Roissin: I was born here.
Joe: Yeah? So was I. Born and brought up in Moss Side; probably one of the roughest parts of Manchester, and I feel safe walking through here - put it that way - in the night with my wife.
Roissin: Why is here...? Why is it that we're keeping here safe?
Joe: City Centre, Fallowfield, Rusholme, Didsbury, everywhere - it's cameras that are all linked up.
Daniel: This is my point, right? I live in Moss Side...
Steve: We're not going to be able to deter everybody.
Daniel: And lots of my friends have been murdered and killed, and no one's found...
Roissin: Anything.
Daniel: ...Who's done it. No one's been prosecuted. Nothing . And there is CCTV footage of them. You know what I mean, so...
Joe: Oh, we've never like filmed anybody being murdered, basically.
Daniel: Well, that's the thing...
Steve: You can't stop it.
Daniel: That's the thing as far as violence goes I don't think as though it works as well as getting someone's car back if it's been nicked; seeing it broken into, getting that person's license place. I mean, I think that obviously that's a one hundred percent guaranteed thing. But as far as my friend being murdered and no one finding out who did it, even though there is CCTV footage of the person.
Joe: And what footage is that?
Daniel: This kid on a bike. There's CCTV footage of him.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
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Ashok: There's a question of whether the alternative is to have more police on the streets, or what do you see as the alternative?
Roissin: I do think there should be more police on the streets.
Ashok: You do?
Daniel: I think the police should have much more of a personal relationship with...
Joe: Communities.
Daniel: Communities, yeah; like you've got community support officers but I spoke to them and they are not from the community. You know what I mean, so...
Steve: Yeah, I know what you are saying; they are from far out.
Daniel: Yeah, so you can't support community from, basically... So I find that a bit pointless. But I spoke to the police about it. But I just feel as though...
Roissin: I feel sorry for those community officers as well, they're not being paid half as much as coppers are. They don't have half the rights as coppers do, and they do most of the work.
Steve: I don't know many community support officers that would like to live in the inner city areas work in... Well, they live in the inner city areas but would like to patrol in those areas.
(Roissin laughs)
Daniel: But that's the problem of being a community officer, you can't support...
Steve: No. Can you imagine the grief his house would get? This, that, and the other.
Daniel: No, but that's the thing if he is...
Steve: No matter how much of a nice guy he is, you just know he's gonna get there.
Daniel: Growing up on the street, if we knew a police man that lived at this address and if he was a proper safe policeman and he did his job properly, then everything would be okay. That's the problem, everyone thinks it's this whole devious mistrustful thing of finding where a copper lives and I'm gonna go and beat him up.
Joe: Well, that's why they bring them out of town, don't they? Like police officers who live in Fallowfield will work in Bolton and Rochdale.
Joe: Officers who live in Rochdale work in Moss Side, Fallow Field, Withington, Didsbury; that's the way it works.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
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attitudes
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Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
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Steve: There will always be a mistrust for the police. It always will be no matter where they are from and you'll always get that. If the copper lives in your area, he's from your area and he patrols that area, people will still mistrust him because he's the police. Because of the sheer nature of it.
Daniel: Yeah, people will. But I think that a lot of normal people will trust him a lot more, and probably go to him about things and give the whole community support.
Steve: I'm not saying that would never happen. But would you like to...? At the end of the day, he's just going to be a bloke going about his job, with his family living there. And does he really need that grief?
Daniel: If he's been planted there, then obviously...
Steve: No, if he's been born and bred around there and every thing's been fine. And eventually he joins the police and his family starts getting grief from certain individuals; it's not worth it.
Roissin: I think that would be really hard. Like Leon, my cousin, he wanted to become a copper. If he was living in that same house which he grew up in, would the neighbours still trust him after he became a cop?
Daniel: I guarantee you, if something happened they would go to him.
Roissin: Maybe.
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Daniel: As far as community support, and trusting the police, and, you know, making things better for the police, and the police wanting to get personal - Why are we talking about police? This is CCTV.
Ashok: The ideal is that... the kind of fantasy is that the police are impersonal is right in some sense. Not the fantasy, but the ideal that is projected in many fantasies is that the police is just the police; it's an abstraction, you don't know them, they're everywhere, they support you.
Shaina: It's like this, right.
Ashok: The eye in the sky. So, I mean, just the whole CCTV thing is around this kind of fantasy of the impersonal eye, like it's everywhere. So there's a...
Shaina: And they won't judge you until you need to be judged or until something bad happens.
Ashok: There's 35 kinds of robots out there working for the police, kind of thing.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
The discussion moves to the similarity between the ideal of the police and the use of CCTV.
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Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
Roissin: I appreciate some people think this is wonderful.
Daniel: People don't. A lot of people don't.
Steve: I never said it's wonderful.
Roissin: No, not necessarily you, but I think that some people genuinely... They hear the people on the TV talking about what this is supposed to be for, and they believe them. For them, that's real; that's what this is for.
Steve: It's a necessary evil these days. I mean, yeah, we would all love to walk around in a society where you don't have to be watched and you could walk around feeling safe. But unfortunately, in this day and age, you can't. It's not CCTV you should be afraid of, it's other people.
Roissin: I'm not scared of other people, I'm scared of this.
Steve: There's no need to be. It's not there to frighten you, it's there to protect you.
Roissin: I'm very lucky I have lived here most of my life in very very bad neighbourhoods and nothing ever happens to me. I leave my front door open...
Steve: It has one purpose, to observe and to monitor.
Roissin: I believe that because I'm good to people, people are good to me and this bothers me. I don't have a rational reason for that.
Steve: I don't know why. It's not there to tell you what you cannot do.
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Daniel: It just bothers me cause it's forced, you know. What I mean is, the people that it's watching don't have a say. It's like we're being told, you know, "we're gonna watch you."
Roissin: You're not trusted. Like it's at the end of your mum's street watching everyone that comes in and out. And why? Cause they're just people in the neighbourhood that have not done anything.
Steve: That's just paranoia. They are not pointing to you to say that you're not trusted.
Roissin: No, no. That's the message that I get from it because I know that I'm not doing anything. So why am I being watched? You know what I mean.
Daniel: Only one thing I don't really understand is that the world has never really been a safe place, you know what I mean?
Steve: Never will be.
Daniel: It never will be. But since this has been introduced... (Phone rings) crime's gone up.
Manchester Metropolitan University, Manchester
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