Migrants, Settlers & Originals: Cawas Lalkaka 2
Cinematographer: Avijit Mukul Kishore
Duration: 00:19:45; Aspect Ratio: 1.333:1; Hue: 14.975; Saturation: 0.306; Lightness: 0.311; Volume: 0.169; Cuts per Minute: 0.456; Words per Minute: 124.473
Summary: Interview with Mr. Cawas Lalkaka (CLK).
Interviewer Madhusree Dutta (M). Shot by avijit Mukul Kishore.
Cawas Lalkaka is a corporate person. He retired as the vice president of Tata Sons, a leading corporate house in India. He is member of, Zorastrians community - popularly called as Parsees. Parsee community is one of the smallest yet significant minority communities in India. They migrated from Iran in 13th century to Navsari, Gujarat. They adapted to the local culture quickly and became an integral part of India's social fabric. Many of them are industrialists, entrepreneurs, scientists and artists of great repute. Parsees are also known for various nationalist endeavors during the British rule and soon after the independence. Though generally they have stayed away from the field politics, barring a few exceptions. The population is mainly concentrated in the city of Bombay. Bombay is dotted with various Parsee institutions and public institutions built by Parsees - TIFR (Tata Institute of Fundamental research) TISS (Tata Institute of Social Sciences) NCPA (National Centre of Performing Arts) J B Petit School, Avabai Petit School, J J School of Arts etc. Many of the popular landmarks and signage in the city are actually named after some eminent Parsees - Nariman Point, Khusroo Baug, Wadia hospital, Gazdar Street etc. Various Parsee trusts are still the mainstay of philanthropy and social work activities in the city.
The interview was conducted in the context of exploring the history of migration in the region. Representatives of many communities were interviewed in order to understand the demography and current identity politics of the city. The interview was conducted in his family home in a spacious apartment at Marine Drive in South Bombay. Marine Drive, occasionally mentioned as queen's necklace in memory of the British rule, is the most romantic and one the most expensive real estate zones in the world.
Parsees are the most non-controversial minority community in independent India. It is particularly worth noticing in the contemporary time which has recorded rising trends in ghettoising minorities.
(M): But is is still believed that Parsees are the best behaved minority.
(CLK): I wouldn't say that, but I would put it like this that yes, I am proud to be a Parsee and of course an Indian, but I am really glad that I was born a Parsee and that I joined the Tata's and thats a great sort of thing for me.
(M)But is is still believed that Parsees are the best behaved minority.
citizen
citizenship
community
indian
integration
lawful
moniroty
parsees
peaceful
rights
tata
Home in Marine Drive, South Bombay
bombay
brabourne stadium
community
cricket
history
integration
migration
parsee
tournament
visa
wankhede stadium
zorastrian
Cricket and Bombay is synonymous for CLK. The cricket in India, before and after independence, has also been a strategy to subvert the foreign rule.
(M): Sujay used to say that you have great memory of cricket in early days... please tell us some anecdotes about that.
(CLK): yes... I don't think that I have missed a single test match in Brabourne stadium, even at the cost of running away from school or college. I must have seen everybody - right from senior Pataudi days ... to the modern days. When I was in school I had seen senior Pataudi taking the team to England in 1946. And ofcourse Merchant and Hazare and all these people I watched with great interest. I also played cricket for my school. Cricket is a great thing and I don't think even today I miss any action.
1946
England
british
colonisation
colonised
commonwealth
contemporary
cricket
england
excitement
fans
game
history
indian
memory
nationalism
pataudi
race
sportsmanship
subjects
supporter
test match
thrill
vijay hazare
vijay merchant
Brabourne stadium
Talks about community based cricket team and tournaments. They were not communal formation but healthy inter-community sports events which generated lot of enthusiasm.
Wankhede Stadium
(M): The city was as mad about cricket as it is now?
(CLK): Maybe more, but yeah. The pentangulars, the quadrangulars. The pentangulars, unlike what silly politicians thought that time and stopped it, they thought it would become communal, but it wasn't so. There was great camaraderies amongst the audience. The Parsee, the Europeans..(M: how was it, tell us) CLK: There were first I think there were quadragulars, triangulars probably, Parsees, English and the Hindus, then the Muslims so it became quadrangulars, there was a European team, Parsees, Hindus and then came the rest, the rest were people like Hazare and all the Christians. These five played the pentangulars, the Hindus normally won. It was great fun with vijay Merchant and all these people. And it was great fun. The Ranji Trophies were very very popular at that time. Today they have gone into the background. People only look into the test matches and one dayer...there was no such thing as one day matches and so that time, the test matches were only held at the Brabourne stadium and this Wankhede thing came up.
addiction
brabourne
british
christians
communal
community
competition
craze
cricket
european
excitement
fan
game
hindu
mania
muslims
neighbourly
one day cricket
parsees
pentagulars
quadrangulars
rival
ronji trophy
spectators
spotsmanship
stadium
supportedrs
team
test match
thrill
tournament
vijay merachant
wankhede
(M): Tell us more about this traingular..really this is the first time I'm hearing..I didn't even know. When was this happening? (CLK: what?) madhu: this triangular, pentangular etc.
(CLK): Pentangulars were there, I may be mistaken but pentangulars were there right upto to Rusi Mody days, Rusi mody and Poly Umrigar and all. That was the time it stopped so it must be around 1970's..60's. it must have stopped in the 60's. (M: when must it have started)? It must have started in the 1930's. So I think the first cricket team went in 32 or 35 or something. (M: so first it was...) CLK: It was only Parsees I think along with the Europeans, the very first. Then the Hindus, Muslims and then the rest. (M: so first it was 2 teams) CLK: yeah yeah, the Englishmen brought it here and even today cricket is only palyed in the Commonwealth countries. So they brought it here and develped it here and now maybe we'll be a match for them.
The community based cricket teams and tournament system gives away in '70s in order to usher in more commercial version of the sports.
1930
1970
Bombay
british
colonised
colony
commonwealth
community
competition
country
englishman
europeans
game
hindus
learning
muslims
parsees
pentagular
quadrangular
rusi mody
sports
strategy
subjects
subversion
test match
triangular
tricks
(M): If you can tell me this history, because obviously cricket is your passion and you can talk about the city through the history of cricket, how it came and this whole history of one one community joining and becoming more...
(CLK): You see the British bought cricket into India and initially, they only played club cricket over here. Bombay Gymkhana was one of their fortes. And then, slowly other communities became fond of it. I think Parsees were the second who sort of joined them and then the hindus. So then the triangular matches started. Then the Muslims joined it and it became quadrangulars. And then the rest, which consisted mostly of Christians and others. Vijay Hazare was one of their greatest batsman. So the it became the pentangulars. They were very very popular, and unlike what other people thought, they were not at all communal based. Of course communites were playing against each other, but people were not at all against each other and there was great camaraderie amongst the audience, and Brabourne stadium was of course the home of the pentangulars. So this is how it started internally.
Talks about the history of cricket in the city. How the game of the imperialist British became part of the native sport culture. The community based tournaments became a space for inter-community exchanges.
Bombay Gymkhana
Brabourne stadium
CCI club (cricket club of India)
addiction
batsman
bombay
brabourne
camraderie
club
communal
community
competition
comrades
cricket
culture
fan
gymkhana
hinus
interest
local
muslims
passion
pentangulars
player
popular
quadrangulars
spectator
spirit
sports
stadium
supporter
team
vijay hazare
Around 1930s many cricket based institutions started coming up. Indians initiated clubs and gymkhanas came up in order to counter the hegemonic and racist European clubs and other institutions. (Many European clubs those days used to display signboards announcing - "Dogs and Indians are not allowed".
(CLK): Then the first British team came, under Lord Tennyson I think, then Jardine. These people played at the Bombay Gymkhana as the Indian unofficial test team under CK Naidu, and they played the first test matches over there, at the Bombay Gym. Then it must have come to Brabourne stadium, after lord brabourne sort of sponsored this stadium and the Cricket Club of India came up in 1934 or 35. My father was the founder member of the Cricket Club of India and I've got his receipt of 100 Rupees life membership of the CCI, and no further fees and I gave that to Rajsingh Dungarpur who is the President. He was very happy to keep the receipt along with a letter from this D'Mello saying that he is glad to admit my father as a member and that if he has any other friends who would like to become members, they should immediately come and become members of the club, even before it was built. And the club was built I think 67 years ago, but these were members even before that. So this is how the crickt started in Bombay.
1934
1935
admission
allow
bombay
britis
c k naidu
cci
city
club
colony
cricket
cricket club of india
culture
document
enthusiast
fees
game
history
indian
lord tennyson
members
membership
popular
president
public
rajsingh dungarpur
receipt
registration
sports
subjects
team
test match
Indians learnt fast the game of the colonizers and posed a serious competition to the British. Was it a case of grit of the subalterns?
(M): Who won always, Eurpeans?
(CLK): I think so, at that time...it was not European, its English. The British team which was called the Melbourne Crickt Club, they used to come and that was the all powerful.
(M): No but in the pentangular.
(CLK): In the pentangular, normally the Hindus won, if my memory is right. They were the strongest, with the naidus and the merchants, so on Mankar. These were our heroes of that time.
(M): how they picked up cricket so fast. Its an alien game no. (CLK: the English game ?) M: yeah it was an English game so English were more used to that game.
british
community
cricket
english
game
hero
hindus
local
national
pentagular
play
quadrangular
skill
strategies
subversion
suropean
team
train
tricks
Now Cricket is the national craze in India and also a ground for large scale monetary and speculative transactions.
(CLK): yeah, Maybe its a coincidence but the Indians took over and now its the most popular game in the country. It always has been for the last 40-50 years and so this is how it was. Cricket was very very popular. Then the gymkhanas came here at Marine Drive, the Parsee Gymkhana, the Hindu gymkhana, the Muslim Gymkhana, the Catholic gymkhana. They were home to particular communities, now of course the membership is open. But thats how it came up. (M: those were mainly cricket oriented?) CLK: yeah cricket oriented but with other sports also, but mainly cricket oriented. But the Cricket Club of India has each and every possible sport now. The membership in my time was 5-6000 rupees, when I became a member. Now its maybe 10-15 lakhs, even now the membership is closed.
CCI club (cricket club of India)
Catholic gymkhana, Marine Drive
Hindu Gymkhana, Marine Drive
Marine Drive
Muslim gymkhana, Marine Drive
Parsi Gymkhana, Marine Drive
club
colonisation
colony
community
cricket
encourage
fan
identity
india
indians
institutions
member
membership
muslim gymkhana
nationalism
parsee gymkhana
skill
spectator
strategy
subject
subjects
subversion
training
For CLK the history of the city and cricket is synonymous.
(M): So the history of cricket is more or less parallel with the history of this city, would you say that?
(CLK): History of this city yes. And Parsees were a great part of this game also, for a very long time there were always one or two Parsees in the Indian Cricket team. So....
citizen
city
colonised
colony
cricket
freedom
histoy
indian
integration
minority
national
nationalism
parsees
popular
sport
sportsmanship
subjects
subversion
team
Ancestors in documents, portraits and albums.
(Frame chage. Mrs. Lalkaka in frame and he is out of frame.)
CLK: I told you there is a book in CCI about cricket. My grandfather was then in the team. I think this is his him.... (ShowsMrs. Lalkaka points at some picture off screen) He had come from Ahmedabad... there names are not there but the team was from Ahmedabad. I was wondering whether my granny's portrait is here... it was in the exhibition. This book.... (means a copy of The Protraits of a Community, edited by Khorshed Gandhy that we were carrying with us). but it maybe the Sir Cawasji Jehangir hall exhibition. Its beautiful, I must buy this. I have got this 'Parsees' (means another book)... have you seen this? My cousin who was the head of the Hongkong bank till last year, Selim Kama, he had sponsored this book through Hongkong Bank. So he gave me
A complimentary copy.
Jehangir hall, Ahmedabad
ahmedabad
book
cci
cricket club of india
family
history
hongkong bank
legacy
portrait
sponsor
team
Buckingham palace
England
JJ School of arts
Rashtrapati bhavan
Talks about an uncle who painted portraits of the British royalties and also the leaders and ministers of the independent India (the neo-royalties).
Windsor castle
(CLK): Am I on.... ok.... sorry....
I would like to tell you a little about my fathers elder brother Jehangirji Lalkaka who was a very famous artist of his time. He was the first director of JJ School of Arts, first Indian director of the JJ School of Arts. All prior to him were Englishmen and he painted George V in Buckingham Palace, he was invited by the British government to go to England and paint two portraits of king George V, which he did. One portrait is still there in Windsor castle and the second one is in Rashtrapati Bhavan, so I had gone and seen it. When his son and my cousin was rear admiral some years ago. So he had taken me there and I saw this portrait of King George V. (out of frame) After this of course he painted a lot of ministers, our Indian ministers, Jawaharlal, Patel and all. Those portraits are also in Rashtrapati Bhavan... so he was a very famous artist of his time.
art
artist
buckingham palace
colonisers
colony
director
education
english
englishman
era
fame
jehangir lalkaka
jj school of art
ministers
oil painting
painter
painting
portrait
president's palace
prolific
rahtrapati bhavan
school of art
windsor castle
Family portraits are donated to museums with the hope that the history will be preserved.
He has painted two portraits of his parents, my grandparents. They were here for about 50 years, but you know my son and daughter, both have gone abroad and I didn't want those protraits to go the way of several other treasures, so I've donated those to the Alpaiwala museum. Have you seen that museum? Have you been there?
(M): yes
CLK: they are resting over there with a plaque of the artists name and my donation. Have you seen that?
Alpaiwala museum
alpiwala museum
artist
contribution
donation
family
family name
grandparents
heirloom
history
inheritance
legacy
painting
parent
plaque
portraits
treasures
CLK: and my granny's portrait went to the portrait of her community's exhibition. Very funny story there. My cousin and I were visiting that exhibition and we were looking around and I was close to the place where this portrait was and one guide with a lot of visitors standing in front of that portrait, my granny's portrait and was trying to explain who painted it and where and what. So I just went and stood at the back, I didn't say anything but she got confused on some issue regarding the portrait so I had to correct her. So I said no its not like this, this is it. So she said how do you know, so I said thats my granny you are looking at and my uncle has painted this in so and so year. So this was about my uncle.
Portraits of grandparents.
artist
community
culture
display
exhibition
family
grandmother
guide
inheritance
khorshed gandhy
legacy
painter
painting
portrait
portrait of a community
pride
uncle
visitor
The stereotypical eccentric Parsees (Bawajis in pedestrian slang).
(M): Ok now some lighter things I want to ask you on some cliches about Parsees. One cliche is that they are very westernized people. Another cliche is that they are little eccentric. (CLK: interrupts with an answer) (M): (continuing): as a member of the community how do you respond to this.
(CLK): Probably you are right on both counts. It has been my experience that parsees who are getting old and they are unmarried they are the eccentric lot. I may trample on some toes but I've noticed this. Secondly..
bachelor
characteristic
cliche
community
eccentric
image
parsees
perception
popular
public
spinster
sterotype
trample
unmarried
Colonial education.
(CLK): about westernized maybe ,....but we're very much into the Indian culture also. Westernized probably because people of my time were always in some british school or English school at that time, so maybe they speak English a little better and maybe they merged into that society at that time and probably their children have also grown up in that environment. so you feel that they are westernized. But we are very anxious to be part of the Indian scene also. Westernized to that extent yes.
accent
affinity
affluence
children
cliche
colonised
community
education
english
image
indian
parsees
perseption
popular
public
spoken language
sterotype
westernised
(M): Do you think India now has become diffrerent from that 13th century when your ancestors came, and you were welcomed with open arms, it has become a little intolerant to outsiders?
(CLK): The Parsee community (M: no the Indian people, society has become intolterant?) Intolerant towards other communities? (M: towards other communities coming in. I mean how Parsees came and they were welcomed) CLK: oh ok like that. No I don't think it would be possible. But they won't come in this fashion. Anybody who comes now, they'll have to get visas, they'll have to, I mean its very differnt. Those days they were strangers. Fortunately there was a king here who accepted them otherwise they would have been turned back or maybe killed. Nobody can come in the way Parsees come in or maybe the Jews come in or the others came in. Nobody can come in now because the government machinery is so strict.
The era when a community could relocate in another land has gone. The formation of the modern nation state has barred any such movement or exchange.
13th century
acceptance
alien
ancestor
arrival
assylum
beraucracy
broadminded
citizenship
denial
government
govt
immigration
integration
intolarance
jews
king
machinery
migrants
migration
modern
nation
nation state
nationhood
outsider
parsees
permission
permit
refuse
ruler
shelter
state
stranger
tolarance
visa
welcome
Still the ordinary citizen may keep the doors open for the people with 'outsider' status. Though CLK thinks that intolerance stems from lack of education. He obviously is oblivious of the hegemonic focus in our education system and plurality inherent in the popular cultures.
(M): Those are technicalities of course you can't come in without visa, now papers are a must. But even culturally, the celebrated hospitality of India is going down.
(CLK): I don't think so. If you see now the Pakistan team has come, maybe some portion of Indians may not want them to came. Maybe with some reason, maybe good reason. But if you notice by and large they will be very welcome wherever they go, there will be tremendous hospitality as we also had when we went to Pakistan two years ago. And I don't think it is like that anymore. There are so many foreigners here who are vey well looked after. But unfortunately in the uneducated lot or maybe in the villages and other places where there is so much fanaticism..you know about the poor family that was burnt to death, they were missionaries... some years ago...the father and the son, they were burnt to death. This is stupidity it has nothing to do with the normal Indian who lives here. He's tolerant. Unfortunately because of some people who create communal hatred, the scene is like this, otherwise Parsees themselves, we've been so well looked after. We've never been harassed or persecuted. Thats why we are very much part of the Indian scene and would very much like to continue like that.
Pakistan
acceptance
biases
burnt
chauvinism
cricket
crusador
culture
educated
family
fanatic
fanaticism
foreigner
fundamentalism
harrasment
hospitality
indian
intolerant
killing
masses
missionary
national
outsider
pakisthan
parsees
permission
persecution
popular
religious
rural
secularism
sports
team
technicalities
tolarance
uneducated
village
visa
Photo album and portraits.
(CLK): (shows family album) This is my grand mother and this was painted by her son and my uncle.... in 1933 by her son Jehangir Lalkaka.... this is my grandmother, my father's mother. This was painted by her son and my father's brother. I have donated this painting to the Alpaiwala museum along with my grandfather's.
(M) Did it happen in Ahmedabad? The pinting...
(CLK) The painting? It must be in Bombay. Because my uncle's studio was in Bombay and later it was a nice sitting room for 50 years.
1933
Ahmedabad
Alpaiwala museum
Bombay
album
alpaiwala museum
artist
bombay
family
grandfather
grandmother
jehangir lalkaka
painting
portrait
studio
Ahmedabad
Alliances to places.
Bombay
ahmedabad
ahmedavadi
ancestor
bombaiya
bombay
city
family
founder
identity
loyalty
(M): DO you consider yourself a Bombaiya or Ahmedavadi?
(CLK): I am totally Bombay. But my parents and their ancestors were all from Ahmedabad. My great grandfather was the founder of the family. He had 5 daughters, two of them married Lalkakas.... three of them. That is how the Lalkaka families came into...
native land
regional
root
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