AQM Mahmood: 1994-07-16
Cinematographer: Naeem Mohaiemen
Duration: 01:15:34; Aspect Ratio: 1.364:1; Hue: 40.465; Saturation: 0.076; Lightness: 0.278; Volume: 0.247; Cuts per Minute: 0.516; Words per Minute: 236.396
Summary: A.Q.M. Mahmood was a professor at Dhaka University. His son Ishtiaq (Pasha) Mahmood had gone to Oberlin a year before me, and that is how I traced him in 1993. A.Q.M. came at the end of the year, and all the frustrations of not finding the "good war" stories came spilling out toward the end of the interview.
Kintu aamader songkha chhilo awnek naganno tader tulonay oboshshoi
We surely were lesser in number
But our workers were more enlightened
Kintu aamader kormi-ra chhilo oboshshoi money kori tader chaitey awnek beshi enlightened, swachetan
ebong shawmaj-ke bishleshon kawrar kamota aamder chhelpileder oboshshoi taar cheye beshi chhilo mone kori
More analytical about society
Ebong tomar shawbcheye bawro kawtha jeta commitment to the cause
More commitment to the cause
Aamar mowney hawy jara eshechhey tader awnek beshi chhilo
Interviewer: Emnitey... kono....safety(?)
Interviewer: You mean...
By commitment, I mean the mindset
Commitment boltey ami eta bojachchhi je attotyager drishtibhongi
haan edesher jonno shadhinota kortey gele hawyto aamakey awnek kichhu haratey hawbey
The readiness to sacrifice a lot for freedom
Shay harabar je prostuti manoshik
To be mentally prepared for that
Sheta chhilo beshi aami mowney korechhi
was definitely more in them
je ei chhelepileder beshi chhilo
these kids had it more
Interviewer: Seventy-r election er shawmay Chhatro Union-er kono candidate chhilo? Maney aapnader kono...
Interviewer: was there any Student Union candidate in the seventy election?
Na. Seventy-r Jatiyo shongshod election-ey?
No. The national election you mean?
Na. Takhon (Abdul Hamid Khan) Bhashani kintu, Bhashani-o kintu election bawrjon korechhilen.
No. Then (Abdul Hamid Khan) Bhashani boycotted the election by the way.
But the pro-Peiking group of Student Union...the external mass organisation NAB...
Haan, Kintu broad-based Chhatro Union kintu pro-Peiking group jeta bajhik mass organisation hishabe tawkhon chhilo NAB(?), Bhashani...
Bhashani has already called for a boycott
Ebong Bhashani nijei tawkhon election bawrjon-er daak diyechhe
What was the statement given by Bhashani then? What was your reaction?
Interviewer: Bhashani Shaheb je elction bawrjon korlen ki kaaron dekhano hoyechhilo tawkhon maney oi porjaye eknon na. Maaney retrospective analysis na. Tawkhon as a kormi, aapnar bojhar-o dawrkar nei, tawkhon ki diye aapnake bujh dewa hoyechhilo? Je aamra election-ey participate korbo na. Kibhabe aanouncement ta janalen? Ebong maney what was your reaction jawkhon shunlen je election-e jachchhi na? Maaney ki bawla hoyechhilo? What was the line aar ki?
Exactly Bhashani Shaheb je ki bolechhilen bawktobye...
What was the exact phrasing?
Interviewer: Aapnar Bhashani shaheb na bolleo aapnar uporer level-er jaara...maney ekta jemon aami boli
Interviewer: I mean the version given by your immediate superiors....
I think it had to do with the legality of the election supervised by the military....
Jeta legal framework ordery jeta Military Rule supervision-ey shei dhoroner kichhu byapar hawyto hawbey...Bhashani-r je election-ey na jawar pechhoney sheta ekta karon thaktey paarey boley mowney kori aamar mowney hawy
Interviewer: Aar seventy-te cyclone holo
Interviewer: And the seventy's cyclone....
Cyclone holo, cyclone-r jonno deri kortey hawyto bolechhe...cyclone jehetu hoyechhey, cyclone-r ekta birat effect chhilo, eijonno hawyto election pechhano kawtha bolechhilo na bawrjon-r kawra kawtha chhilo aamar exactly ekhon mowney nai...kintu Awami league bolchhey, na
I don't exactly remember whether cyclone was one of the causes to boycott or postpone the election, but Awami league said no....
E..tara ei election bawrjon-er daakta-ke grohon kawrey nai
They didn't agree to boycott.
Interviewer: Achchha taholey election eta to...
Interviewer: OK. Then?
Bhashani said in a speech in Pawltan field that they...no representative of Pakistan goverment have come to see the cyclone-related devastations . Even Yahya Khan on his way back from Peiking did not go via Dhaka.
Maaney Bhashani jemon tomar andolan-ey...ota je tidal wave holo, je bohu loke mara gelo, tawkhon uni bollen je ora keu asheni. Maaney pawltan-er boktritay uni bollen. Maaney ora keu asheni bolltey uni Pakistan-er sarkar ebon taader representative keu dekhtey aashey nai. Yahya Kahn was there in...Peking-e chhilen, jawar pawthey Dhaka hoye choley gelen. Uni oi elaka ghureo gelen na.
He meant to say (hawker's calling from the streets) that the relationship with Pakistan had to be severed.
Maaney etai bojhatey chailen oder shathey aamader ekta birat shawmmondho (hawker's calling from the streets) ebong almost to the extent aamader alada hoye jawa chhara kono gatyantor nei.
Ejonno ekta manoshik prostuti onader-o chhilo. Ebong uni, Bhashani-o kintu ei shadhin Purbo Pakistan-er kawtha, Purbo Bangla na boleo, Purbo Pakistaner kawtha kintu bolechhen, aamar mowney hawy.
They were mentally readying themselves. Though he didn't say East Bengal, he said East Pakistan...
Interviewer: Aar ki bolechhen...ora keu asheni...
Interviewer: What did he mean by they...
Ora keu asheni boltey uni odike ingit diyechhen aar ki.
They meaning that side of Pakistan...
Interviewer: Achcha eta kone...aami kintu jaani na
Interviewer: Oh I didn't know about this
Bhashani said this in the Pawltan Maidan
Eta pawltaner moidaney bolechhen Bhashani
Interviewer: Before the election?
Interviewer: Election-er aagey?
Election-er aagey. Oboshshoi.
Of course, before the election.
Interviewer: So you were a stident then...
Interviewer: Ta...eta toh sir, aapni tawkhon-o chhatro...
In seventy one, you were a student
Seventy-one-ey aapni chhatro
In seventy one....
Tawkhon aamra...awneker shathey awnekey bichchhinno hoye gelam. Ke kothay jaantey paarlam na. Kawthata bujhtey parchho? Tawkhon paribarik deek thekeo aami kichhuta...maney...oder shathey jogajogta aamar hawy ni...kawto dharo ekmash der mash
Then we were scattered in all directions, without communication, sometime for months...
Interviewer: By we you mean?
Interviewer: Kaader shathey?
Close political friends. Even when they regrouped, I was not in touch. So I tried a different way because I had to join the battle that had already started April-end, May. I got in touch with a few other friends who were of a different political affiliation, not the labour or student union, who were aleady in india. My close friend Shamsuddin, was there too and called me to join him.
Maaney amaar onno jara chhilo, rajnoitik bondhu jaara chhilo, tara bibhinno jaygay chhawraya chhitaya gelo, ora kintu paroborti-tey jawkhon ek holo tawkhon aamar shawngey jogajog hawy ni aar. Aami tyawkhon anno route chinta korlam. Jebhabei hok aamakey toh juddhey jog ditey hawbey. Tawkhon juddho shuru hoye gelo, even May masher deek theke, April-er shesher deek theke, jawa shuru korlo India-te...haan? Tawkhon je bhabei hok aamar aro duijon bondhu jara, ghonishtho bondhu, onno line-r, oi shromik anodolan-er line nawy, onno liner chhatro union, tara oi niye choley gelo, ebong taader-e shathey jogajog hawbar pawr amaar ek bondhu chhilo Shamsuddin jeta bollam choley gelo India-te, Shei jogajog korlo aami ekhaney ashchhi..tui ichcha korley ashtey parish
Interviewer: Awnek chhobi achhey toh she shawmaykaar (?)
Interviewer: So many pictures of that time....
But planning how to get there took me very long, till August. In seventy two May mostly, there I reestablished contact with a lower rung member of labour revolution and he asked for some medicines for the wounded in 'actions.' I got them some from Dhaka Medical College and personal contacts. That was the last contact.
Then aami okhaney kibhabey jabo shetar pawthghat khub khunjtey cheshta korlam, erom kortey kortey khub shawmoy-o laglo, ebong end of May June ebhabey korey korey ultimately bodhhawy August-er dikey aami bodhhawy ami tawkhon India jabar pawth pelam, kibhabey jetey hawbey. Taa ultimately aami gelam. Okahne, seventy two-tey (?). Kintu shromik andolan-er shathey itimoddhey aamar jogajog shawmbhawbato ekbar hoyechhilo May masher dikey ta-o ekjon kormi-r shathey, unchudawrer nawy ebong shay bollo je aamra kothao kothao kichhu action korchhi, aamader kichhu oshudh pawtro tumi jogar korey ditey paro kina. Tawkhon aami kichhu osudh byatigawto procheshtay hashpatal thekeo niye, Dhaka (?) Medical College thekeo kichhu nilam plus byatigawto procheshtay kichhu oshudh pawtro jogar korey tar moddhey aami dilem. Ei, etai holo amar ekhane giye taader shathey jogajoger shesh.
Interviewer: Aapni bollen je unchudawrer kormi naa...
Interviewer: You said he was not an upper-rung member...
No, he didn't have access to the upper rung leaders.
Unchudawrer na, maney maney dhawro tara aaro maney dhawro uporer shathey jaader jogajog achhey ei dhawroner na.
Interviewer: Achcha maaney aapni, aapnakey kone level-er kormi consider kawra hoto?
Interviewer:Which rung were you?
Interviewer: Among the educated members?
Interviewer: Lyakha pawra jaana?
Na lakha pawra janar dikey motamuti aami upor-er dikey chhilam. Motamuti bhabey tawkhon jara chhilo. Maaney seniority-r deek theke maaney aaro jara aagey theke achhhey maney shei pawrjaye aami...moddhom pawrjaye chhilam. Aamar chaiteo senior, aamar chaiteo shawcheawn, aamar chaiteo joggo maney uporer diker kormi chhilo aaro
No as per education level, I was in the upper rung. But I was in the middle as compared to people who have joined earlier, more enlightened and more capable...who were there....
Interviewer: toh aapni oshudh dilen?
Interviewer:So you got the medicine?
No more contacts. Then I made contacts with people who were fighting in the frontlines of freedom, who were not necessarily under the labour revolution.
Tarporey taader shathey aabar jogajog hoyni. Aami bawrong tawkhon aabar oi liney link-ta aami khunje ber korlam, je maaney tomar shimanto paar hoye giye muktijuddhey shawrashori aangshogrohon. Not under them, not under shromik andolon, shromik andolon-er shathey nawy, tawkhon ei shadhinota juddhey sheibhabey.
How oraganised was the labour revolution?
Tawkhon under them...shromik andolon kawtota organised...maney (sound of heavy vehicles passing)
Shromik andolon to eto bawro ekta juddho porichalonar jonno joggota tawkhono arjon kawreni kintu taara toh ei seventy-one-er juddhota shuru hoye gelo, eto taratari je erokom ekta crackdown hawbey hawyto eta tader-o comprehension-er bairey chhilo hawyto. Kintu tader toh..tobuo tara toh..
They were not ready at all for such a big battle and did not expect the army crackdown so soon...
Interviewer: (Tara) kibhabey cholchhilo?
Interviewer: How were they managing?
I am not so clear on this...
Tader underey, tara pawroborti kibhabey cholchhilo aami aar sheta aar...
Interviewer: Maaney taara kisher naamey juddho korchhilo?
Interviewer: No what was their cause for joining the battle?
Taara Purbo Banglar shadhinawtar naamey juddho korchhilo. But on the both fronts. They were fighting the Mujib-baadis as well as the Pakistani army.
They were fighting on both fronts, both pro-Mujibs and the Pakistan army, for the liberation of East Bengal.
Interviewer: So oi jinishta chhilo...
Interviewer: So that was there....
Chhilo. Ebong oi jinishta kortey giye awnek shawmoy taara kono kono khetre jawnogawner kachhey onnoder pracharer shikar hoyechhey taara, je era Pakistanider pawkkhey kaaj korechhey emon kawthao eder boley thaktey paarey. Kintu asholey taa nawy.
Yes and they were victimized for that by their enemies stating that they were pro-Pakistan, which was not the case.
Interviewer: Taholey taara ki Muktibahini-r training camp tamp egulateo kichhu...
Interviewer: Were they a part of the liberation front training camp?
Na. Muktibahini-r training camp-tamp-e tara beshi jaayni. Na.
No. Not really.
Interviewer: Ebong dharen jodi Mujib-baadi karor shathey dekha hawy ba jodi pro-Indian hawy, Indian, taholey ki takey mere felbey?
Interviewer: So if they met a pro-Mujib or pro-Indian, it will end in a killing?
Mere to phelechhey awnek jaygay. Du ek jaygay maara porechhey. Ebong oi aamader sheemanto-r thekey aagawto kichhu Muktibahini hok ba Mujib-bahini hok taader haatey aamader...aamader boltey shromik andoloner kichhu chhelepile maara porechhey. Seventy one-ey.
Yes, in seventy one there were many killings of people crossing the border, be they pro-Mujib front, liberation front or our labour revolution...
Interviewer: Aapni ki byaktigawtobhabey...achchha aapni toh bolben-e ekhon
Interviewer: You in person...as you said...
Interviewer: Aapnar oi byaktigawtobhabey porichito, pashe jeta bollam aar ki...je ki...
Interviewer: You knew anybody in person...
Ora tomaar shawhorer kachhey maara gachhay aar ki. Exactly ki circumstance-ey maara gachhey shetao jaani na
They died near the city. Didn't know the exact circumstances.
Kaara kaara chhilo, maaney who were the people and what was their background?
Who were the people and what was their background?
Shamimul Ajmi (?), Anaid from Borishal among others...
Shei shawber moddhe(?) Shamimul Ajmi (?), Anaid boley ekjon kormi chhilo Borishal-er. Shay chhilo odiney. Haan?
Interviewer: Shamim Azmi from?
Interviewer: Shamim Azmi hochchhey giye...kothakar loke jeno?
Oi tomar U P-r.
Aar toh aaro kicchu bondhu bandhob chhilo, exactly taader naam boltey paarbo na. Kawek jon-e tawkhon maara gachhey. Shawbarey ekta operation-e taader mere phelechhey ederkeke. Maaney they were betrayed. Maaney ora eta kintu Pakistan Army-r haatey maara pawre nai ami jawddur jaani. Era internal maaney ki oono dawler lokder haatey maara porechhey.
And some more friends, can't say the names. They died in the hands of rival parties, betrayed. Not by Pakistan army.
Interviewer: Kawto tarikhey eita?
Interviewer: The date was?
Can't say that...
Tarikh boltey paarbo na tawbey...
Interviewer: Aagey? (?)
Interviewer: Before? (?)
Haan. Oboshshoi awnek aagey. Eta dhawro shawmbhawbawto July-Tuly er dikey hotey parey.
Yes, certainly. July mostly.
Interviewer: How did you get the news?
Interviewer: Toh aapni khawbore pelen kibhabe jinishta-r?
Ami eshey khawbore peyechhi.
When I reached.
Interviewer: Achchha maney tawkhon ki bawla hoyecchilo aapnakey? Je what did you receive? Just that they died in an operation or you were told they died in an operation plus (sound of calling bell) it is suspected jay omuk bahini killed them?
Interviewer: How was the news told to you ?(sound of calling bell) That the died in an opration or were assassinated by enemies?
Haan, erokom bolechhey je omuk bahini-r haatey tara mara porechhey, shunechhi du din aagey...
They said two days back assassination happened by so and so group...
Interviewer: Aapni khawboreta pelen pawrey...
Interviewer:You got the news later...
Haan. Eta aami exactly kaar kachhey pelam ta boltey paarbo na...Tawbey Dhakay eshe khawborta pelam. Exactly kaar kachhey peyechhi sheta boltey paarbo na. Kintu eshe khonj peyechhio je kichhu shromik anodolaner kicchu chhelepile maara porechheyekhaney. Taar moddhe Taher-o mara porechhey eta ami khonj peyechhi.
Yes I got the news when I came to Dhaka, don't remember from whom, that some kids from labour revolution has been assassinated including Taher...
Interviewer: Kon Taher?
Interviewer: Taher who?
Pet name for Shamimul Azmi.
Taher maaney jaar naam Shamimul Ajmi, taakey Taher boley daaka hoto aar ki.
Interviewer: It was said Kader-ya group killed him.
Interviewer: Taake bolechhilo Kaderya Bahini taader mere phelechhey.
Na na. Kaderya Bahini-r haatey maara porechhey Najrul boley ekta chhele, Tangail-er. Sheta liberation-er pawrey. Seventy one-er pawrey jawkhon
Kaderya Bahini Tangail dawkhole korlo, ashlo, tawkhone Najrul-ke...Najrul dhawra porlo taader haatey, haan? Ebong Najrul-ke oi Tangail-er math-ei bodhhawy openly maara hoyechhey. Oidikey Tangail Bindubashini school-er mathey ba kothao...
No no. That was Najrul from Tangail. After liberation when Kader-ya group took over Tangail, he was caught and openly assassinated in the Bindubashini school field mostly.
Interviewer: Achcha, oi ghawtona shommondhe aapni ki shunechhen? Maaney how it happened?
Interviewer: What did you hear about it? How it happened?
Can't say the details, but as far as I have heard, his capture had to do with some personal vendetta.
Shay details boltey paarbo na kinti shunechhi je Najrul-ke dhawra hoyechhay, Najrul-er shathey clash of ...clash chhilo...personal clash chhilo...byaktigawto kono rosh chhilo hawyto, juddher shawmoykar...
Interviewer: What was Najrul's involvement in seventy one?
Interviewer: What was Najrul's involvement in seventy one? Shay ki korechhilo?
He fought on behalf of the labour revolution.
Seventy-one-ey shay-o juddho korechhay. Shay-o oi shromik andolan-er loke hoye juddho korechhey.
Interviewer: But was it certifiable? Bengali?
Interviewer: Kintu shetar kono certification (?) hoyechhilo ki? Bangali?
No no no. Bangali. Oboshshoi. Oi elakar. Nagarpur elakar. Bodhhawy Nagarpur Tangail elakar.
No. Yes, Bengali. Mostly from Nagarpur, Tangail.
Interviewer: Local people didn't know that he was fighting for the liberation?
Interviewer: Lokjone chhilo na je jaanto je muktijuddho korchhey?
Haan oboshshoi jaanto. Taar-o lokjone chhilo. Taakey jeneshunei merechhey.
Yes. The other side had people too. He was not killed by mistake.
Because he was of that party.
Jeneshunei. Jehetu oi dawler.
Interviewer: But public-e maarsey?
Interviewer: He was killed by the mob?
Haan. Public-rai merechhey. Ebong er public repulsion kawtota ki hoyechhay aami shei muhurtey boltey paarbo na. Tawkhone to etar ekta dheu cholchhey deshey. Maaney kawthata bujhtey paarchho? Sheo juddho korechhey kintu taakeo jehetu tomar drishtribhongir ye chhilo...
Yes. But can't say about the public repulsion about this. Then it was happening like waves all around. He was a freedom fighter but because he was...
He was of a different ideology...
Interviewer: But I want to say that public executions are not easy. Some excuses had to be there...
Interviewer: Maaney jeta bolchhi je publicly maanush-ke maara shoja na. Some excuses to be there...(?)
Haan excuse toh toiri korechhey tara.
Yes, they made up excuses.
Interviewer: Taara excuse toiri korecchey?
Interviewer: They made up excuses?
Kintu prachar taader beshi. Kaader Bahinir prachar beshi chhilo. Taara okey dhorey eibhabey prachar korechhey je hawyto muktijuddher biruddhey kaaj korechhey, temon kichhu ekta bolechhey hawyto.
They had the power of propaganda. The Kader group must have said that he was an enemy of the liberation.
Interviewer: That he is a collaborator.
Interviewer: That he is a collaborator.
Haan, Kintu ultimately sheta toh danray ni. Lokejon jaaney na na...jenechhey ta nawy ghawtona.
Yes, but people came to know the truth later.
Interviewer: But tawkhone keu asheni thamatey? If this is a thing, keu thamatey ashey nai.
Interviewer: Nobody tried to stop it then?
Na eta birat mob-er moddhey hawyto tara hawyto dhorey anchhey pawt korey hawyto emon kicchu hawyto hawbey...
No it was a big mob and it was done quickly...
Interviewer: Not those type of situation jekhaney...
Interviewer: Not those type of situations where...
Hmm. Atkabar mawto kono obostha shekhaney chhilo na.
Yes. It could not be stopped.
And you said that Shamimul Azmi had an interesting story, his family left and he came back to join the war...
Interviewer: Aar aapni bolchhen ei Shamimul Ajmi-r ekta interesting story achhey je, his family left, he came back to join the war...
No he didn't go at all. came back nawy, shay jai-e ni.
No he didn't go at all. No question of coming back.
When did his parents?
Interviewer: Tawkhon ota ki chhilo? Maaney kawkhon taar baba ma...
His parents went towards the end of the war when the last flights were leaving for Pakistan, his younger brother before the war. He didn;t have contacts with his parents.
Taar baba ma gechey bodhhawy eta...juddher moddhei, kintu taar chhoto bhai-ta choley gechhilo juddher-o aagey...kintu baba ma gachhey bodhhawy juddher shesher dikey...shesh flight-gulo jawkhone Pakistan jachchhey, they they had finally left. Kintu er shathey baba ma-r temon jogajog-e chhilo na aar paroborti-te
What did his father do?
Interviewer: Ore baba ki korten?
He worked in the railway.
Ore baba railway-te chakri korten.
Interviewer: Achchha...maney...but, apni bollen U.P....
OK but you said U.P.
He was not Bihari?
Interviewer: Bihari na?
Interviewer: Achchha. Achchha.
From Azamgarh district, Uttar Pradesh.
U.P.-r. Azamgarh jela.
Interviewer: Baba ma jaanto je Chhatro Union korten?
His parents knew that he was in Student Union?
Haan taara jaanto. Shay jaanto.
And they were OK with it.
Interviewer: Ebong sheta niye taader kono problem chhilo na.
Paribarik kicchu problem hawyto chhilo prathomik dikey, shesher dikey emon obostha hoyecchilo je, tawkhon aar problem-er toh prashno nai, eta agey aaro agey-er ghawtona dhawro. Sixty seven eight thekei mawney kawro taara involved er moddhe chhilo. Sixty eight theke, taara agey Chhatro Union, taarpar sixty eight thekey radical rajniti-r shathey jorito. Baba Ma jaanleo hawyto, paribarik contradiction-conflict chhilo. Thaka shatteo, he has chosen his own line.
There could have been resistance from the family in the beginning. Sixty seven he was in student union and from sixty eight his politics became more radical. In spite of the family disapproval, he had chosen his own line.
Interviewer: Ta aapni bollen aapnar baba ma to jaanten na.
Your parents didn't know you said.
Amaar baba ma prathomic awbosthay jaanten na aami kawtota involved. Aamar baba ma janleo awtota jaanten na. Kintu involved, Chhatro Union kori sheta jaanten, kintu kawtota radical rajniti-r shathey aami bhetorey bhetorey jorito tawtota baire diye hawyto onara jaanten na.
They knew primarily that I was with the student union but how how involved I was internally with radical politics, they didn't know perhaps.
Interviewer: Down the line (?) maaney...ei loker baba obviously, not obviously, but...didn't support muktibahini of this...maney jorito na, maney bhawye nijer jaaner bhawyei...
His parents must not have supported the libeartion front in fear of their own lives...
Hawyto jaaner bhawyei gachhe...je ekhaney thaka-ta taade pawkkhey aaro shawmbhob chhilo na. Jekono karonei hok safe chhilo na. Kono imminent fall of Pakistani Government dekhte peyechhen, tai na? Taara safe mowney korechhen chole jawata, choley gachhen.
The fear must have made them leave the country, the lack of safely, the perceived imminent fall of Pakistan Government, must have made them leave...
That day...I didn't know if you knew this...
Interviewer: Shedinkey...Ami aboshsho jaani na aapni eta jaanen kina...
You did not talk to the son? After the crackdown when he fought separately...
Interviewer: You did not talk to the son? Chheleta jawkhon...maaney suddenly oi crackdown hawbar pawrey....chheleta toh apnar shathey toh fight koreni... maaney shay toh alada
Interviewer: Somewhere else...aapnar shathey ki korechhey na korechhey shay kawthai hawy ni...
Somewhere else...any updates about his activities...
Na jogajog hawy ni.
No, there was no contact with him.
Interviewer: Tobu toh maane...
Na seventy one-ey hoyechhay, shay prothom dikey (Interviwer: Prothom dikey...) hoyechhay. Kintu crackdown-er pawrey hawy ni.
No in the beginning of seventy one it was there, not after crackdown.
Not before the parents left...
Interviewer: Tah abba amma jawar agey toh hoini...
Na hawyni. Oboshshoi. Aami toh chhilam na deshe aar. Haan. (ambient sound of laughter, probably recorded)
No. I left the country by then. (ambient sound of laughter, probably recorded)
His parents didn't insist him to leave...?
Interviewer: Toh kawtodin jete legechhey...toh aapni...aami jaani na, abba amma takey jetey bawle ni, taar porey?...
It seems surprising that his father didn't...
Interviewer: Shay taar Abba...Maaney aamar kachhey khub jeta...
He was very much radicalized and cut off from the family by then....
Shay jamon je pawrjaye gachhay taar abba amma takey aar onno kono liney onno kono jawar pawth, pawddhoti...shay awnek advanced...shay mowney kawro ekdom hardcore-der moddhey ekjon...she poribarer shawngay taar shawmporkoi aager thekei chhinno...
Interviewer: Ei karonei...
But his brother who left, was connected to the family and left for Pakistan with parents, not for good though. That was November, much before the fall of Pakistan on sixteenth December.
Kintu taar chhoto bhai-tar kicchu shawmparko chhilo, paribarik. Haan. Taa ultimately toh shay toh cholei galo. Ta sheo kintu Pakistan gelo je Pakistan-e theke jabey boley nawy. Pakistaner juddher thik agey agey, crackdown-er aagey...Tawkhon aamakey ore chhoto bhaitai aamakey bolechhey ore babara jawkhone end of the war ba gelo Pakistaney...tawkhono Pakistan-er pawtone hawy ni kintu. Eta kintu November ba ee hawbey...tawkhone Pakistan-er je sixteenth December pawtone hawbey aamar je...only the last year
Tawkhon I came to Dhaka to attend a conference here.
Then I came to Dhaka to attend a conference here.
Interviewer: O achchha, achchha...
Interviewer: O aami tai koitechhilam je aapney koiththeke jaanben eta, je dekhai toh hawy ni...
Oh that was what I thought, how did you know without meeting...
He came the previous year,
Shay eshchhilo gawto bawchhore.
Interviewer: Toh chhoto bhai ki bolchhilo...taar wording-ta ki
What did the younger brother say...
He said his father was insisting that he got admitted to college-university there...but he was very reluctant, he thought he could come back here but didn't expect that here would become a free country so soon....
Shay bolchhey taar baba takey bolchhey college university-te bhorti hawar jonno...but he was very reluctant, he thought that he can come back, Haan? Ei deshey aabar ashbey. Kintu aaro e desh je shadhin hoye jabe desh, sheta tarao bhabeni, alada hoye jabey totally, etru druto, shay-o bhabeni.
Didn't expect that even though a part of labour revolution?
Interviewer: Shromik anodolaner hoyeo bhabenni eta?
Konta? Na..ghatonata (ambient hawker calls from the street ) je end-ta eto druto hawbey sheta nije sheo bhabe nai...shay gaechhey kintu March-e. March-er dikey gachhey. Aar during this period shay kintu ekhane ashey nai. Tar babara takey...shay ashtey cheyechhilo kintu babara bodhhawy ashtey mana korechhey takey, je tumi ekhaney aashbe na aar.
No. (ambient hawker calls from the street ) Such a quick escalation was not expected. He went in March. He wanted to come back but mostly his elders stopped him from that.
Interviewer: Aashtey maana toh, eta aamar interesting legechhey ei karoney je..chheletar mathar
This stopping of the younger son is interesting as compared to...
Haan, kintu shay kintu ore bawro bhai-r mawto otota absolute maney dedication awtota chhilo na to the cause...awtota chhilo na
Yes, he was not as radical as his elder brother...
Interviewer: That's interesting (?)...ami shetai jaanety cheyechhilam je...
That's interesting...That's what I wanted to know...
He was not that type
He was not that type...je
His brother refused to leave...
Interviewer: Barobhai toh geloi na
Haan barobhai geloi na...barobhai-er shathey total paribarik shawmporko ekebarey chhinno hoye giyechhilo...haan
Yes, he had cut off all the family ties by then....
Chhotobhai obshsho aagey thekei, mowney hawy shromik andolon thekey o jawkhone Pakistan-ey choley jaay tawkhon thekey kicchuta kichhuta shawmparko taar bichchhinno hoye ashchhilo
His younger brother also, since his early labour revolution days, got cut off a bit...
From parents or siblings?
Interviewer: From parents or siblings?
Na na. From his other brothers.
No. From his other brothers.
He had a lot of chats with you, the previous year from March end?
Interviewer: Aapnar shathey awnek kawthai toh onar gawto bachhore tai na? from March end (?)...
Awnek kawtha na hoileo kichhu...haan
Not a lot. Some.
But could you ask why he left? After he went also certain things were out of...
Interviewer: Kintu aapney ki jiggesh hawra shujog paichhilen je keno gala? After he went toh also certain things were out of...
He and his brother were kind of forced to go to Karachi before crackdown. They thought since parents are insisting and buying ticket let's go have a trip in Karachi and visit relatives. But they didn't expect the crackdown to come in the way, that their parents would forbid them to come back.
O aar ore bhai-kay pathiye diyechhey...je tomaderkay jetey hawbey, forced...to some extent forced. Ora mowney korlo jeay thik achhey je Karachi-tey ghurey ashi na keno, aamakey jeta bollo...haan...kintu oi je, crackdown je hoye jaabey awtota bujhtey paare ni. Tai eta kintu crackdown-er aagei gachhay. Ora bhablo je thik achhey, baba ma jawkhone bolchhey aar ticket-o dichchhey, Karachi-tey oder attio-shajon chhilo, chacha tacha na kaara chhilo, toh bollo thik achhey ghurey ashi, ghurey ashtey giye aar, crackdown hoye gelo aar tawkhone aar okey ashtey dewa hawyni aar... (Interviewer: Kintu) kintu strictly paribar thekey nishedh korey dewa hoyechhay tumi aar ekhaney ashbey na ekhaney aar...
So he didn't have much commitment to the cause of liberation then....
Interviewer: Taa andoloner proti taar commitment kawtotuku chhilo, je shay...
Na shay aagey thekei aami...aamar je dharona...she aagey thekei shromik andolon theke ektu bichchhinno hoye gechhilo...
No I thought he was getting detached from the cause early on...
Otherwise why would he go vacationing during such a crucial time...
Interviewer: Naholey vacation kortey jaabey keno erokom ekta shawmoye...(AQM Mahmood: Haan haan)maney...
Naa o bichchhino hoye gechhilo...jodio prothomdikey shay o equally dedicated chhilo kintu taar moddhe kintu prothom dikei ektu vacillation chhilo, jeta ore kawthay o nijei bolechhey...shikar korechhey...je ami amar bhai-er mawto awtota chhilam na, awtota kawshto, awtota poribar theke alada thaka amar pawkkhey shawmbhab chhilo na. I wanted to communicate with my parents, kintu amar bari tawkhone aamakey badha dito, kono dawrkar nei. Eta aamakey awnekbar bolechhey shay...je kono kono jaygay hawyto eshe gachhay...ponero deen, ek maash kono khawbore nai, haan? O chinta korto je baba ma chinta korchhey, kintu tawkhone aami ei kawtha boltam, or bhai bolto na baad dao (?) kono prayojan nai poribarer shathey jogajog korey rakhar. Ei jay kaaj kortey gele aamader awto abeg...abegapluto holey cholbey na, haan? Poribarer byaparey aar ki. Ei O aamakey eta bolechhey.
No he said, he admitted, though he was equally dedicated in the beginning, he started drifting apart from the cause, because he wanted to be in touch with his parents, unlike his elder brother. In times of long estrangments, fifteen days-one month, he used to be worried about his parents, while his elder brother said, we can't afford to be so emotional when we are fighting for the cause.
Interviewer: Asifda (?) jeta bowlechhey biye korley abeg ashbey tawkhon aar ki...
It was said that if you are married you would get more emotional...
Haan..Or bawro bhai-ta okey bolto, aamakey bolchhey je Taher aamakey ei dhawroner kawtha bolechhilo.
Yes, Taher also spoke like that. He told me.
But according to you...though everybody said they didn't expect the crackdown, surely they anticipated something?
Interviewer: Maaney aamar byaktigawto...maney...je aapni jawkhone bollen kawthata....jawkhon aami bujhi nai je crackdown lege jabey. Kintu asholey ei kawthai shawbai bawley, maybe not the date but ekta kichhu je ashtechhey shawbai toh sheta jaaney
Interviewer: Maaney...shay shromik andolawney toh aapni toh chhilen...at least aapni toh were more involved than him. Khawbore ashchhilo na kicchu jay something is happening maaney...I am..
No, you were part of the labour revolution and was more involved than him. There was no news as warning?
jekono bhabei hok ekta confrontation-er dikey egiye jachchhilam je aamara, tai na?
You mean that a big confrontation is coming up?
Interviewer: Ebong ei shawmoye ki keu bhabety paarey je ekon kichhu hawbey na...maaney ei shawmoye Karachi-te ghurey aashley
Yes in such a crucial time, expecting nothing would happen in a Karachi trip...
Awto druto thik ota datewise hawyto awtota bhabey ni...o bhabchhey hawytoh du shawptaho pawrey hawyto choley ashbo ei dhawroner... Chinta bhabna taar thaktey paarey, aami jaani na. Aar tawbey shay nijeo bolechhey aamar shathey andoloner mainstreamer shathey shawmpawrko bichchhinno hoye gechhilo almost...beforehand...haan...
See it was not so fixed datewise...he might have thought he could be back from Karachi in two weeks...also he was estranged with the liberation cause by then...
Interviewer: Onaar emni gawtobawchhore ja kawtha hoyechhilo aapni kemon dekhlen?
So what was the summary of your talks with him the previous year...
Tapor o toh okhan theke, abar college university theke lakapawra shesh korey Russia-te gelo scholarship niye pawrar jonno...Ph D kawrar jonno...Moscow-te, toh okhaneo, at the fag end of his study period in Moscow, takey...shay bollo je KGB takey shawndeho kawra shuru korlo, haan? Tawkhone takey oust korey dilo Moscow theke, he came back empty handed, maaney chaar paanch bawchhore thakar pawreo, Moscow thekey, in retrospective, shay aamakey bollo, je chinta kowrey dekhlo jay awnekdin taakey follow kawra hochchhilo, taar gotibidhi, taar drishtibhongir shathey oder, aagey emni university-te ba bibhinno jayagay kawthabarta hoto, he, then, followed the policies of the Soviet Government...toh jekono bhabei hok okey follow koretey kortey ultimately he was...taakey ekbaarey ber-e korey dewa holo, maaney shay bollo taar thesis jawma dewar just agey agey, haan? Toh empty handed abaar shay Pakistan-e pherot aashchhe, taa abaar shey ki korey holo, jebhabei hok, ultimately, babostha korey America-y gelo ebaar, america thekey shay Ph D korlo, shay eshey ekhon shay...kaajey join korey university-te, chakri korchhay...
Then he finished studying there and went to Moscow for Ph D, there also KGB started following him, keeping an eye on him since he started talking about the Soviet Union policies and he was finally ousted just before submitting his Ph D thesis so he had to come back empty handed. But he somehow went to America and finished his Ph D, now he is back and working in the university.
Interviewer: so he is alright now?
Interviewer: so he is alright now?
Haan. Taar shathey aamar mowney hawy taar ager drishtibhongi shathey ekhonkar drishtibhongi-r jawtheshto parthokko achhey.
Yes. But I think his worldview has changed a lot by now.
Interviewer: Sheta awboshsho, I would be surprised if it was not, ebayoshay jodi ekhono...tawkhono toh etota...
Yes, I would be surprised if it has not.
Na, o aager thekey shorey aaschhilo, shay nijei bolechhey...
No, it has been changing since before, he said.
Interviewer: Chhutey jawar je tendency...(AQM nods his head) Achchha aapni bollen je oi shromik andoloner loke, eshey aapnakey oi (ambient sound of hawker calls) ashukh shushrushar byaparey contact korechhilo...that was your maney, first... (AQM consents)
The tendency to rush...as you said your medicine episode with the labour revoultion was your first brush...
May be he knew me studying medicine and thought I would have access to medicines. But not much contact with him since then.
Shay aamakey hawyto chinto aar ki, haan? Aar jehetu aami daktari pori sheta jaanto, je hashpataley aamar madhdhome kichhu oshudh toshudh paabey, toh sheta korlo, kintu khub beshi jogajog taar shathey aamar rawkkha kawra shawmbhab hawyni aar.
After that when was the hospital established in India?
Interviewer: Taar pawrey aar India-te je hashpatal holo, sheta kawkhone holo?
Kay aami? Aami ekhan thekey giye shojashuji shay hashpataley jabo bolei ekhan thekey gelam.
Who me? I went there to join the hospital only.
Interviewer: Sheta kon maashey?
End of July I was contacted...August went in preparation...
Sheta dhawro eta end of July hawbey hawytoh, jogajog-ta holo aar ki...tarpawr August maash-ta aamar gelo prostuti
Interviewer: Jogajogta kaar maddhome, maaney kibhabe...
Got the contact of Shamshuddin through an engineer friend.. Mamu...Lulu...his friend Sekender Ali Khan at Gopibaag...the place from where the guys used to join crack platoon to attack sectors of Dhaka...
Jogajog-ta holo...Shamshuddin-er khawbore aamar ek bondhur kachhey...Mamu boley, engineer, Lulu...taar arek bondhu achhey Sekendar Ali Khan, taader basha holo oi tomaar, Gopibage-e, Gopibag-er-e awnek chheley tomar oi sector, Crack Platoon naamey Dhaka-te...e korto...haamla korto, Dhaka-te, Gopibag-e, Crack Platoon...Sector two thekey Dhaka shawhorey eshey je akromon gulo kawra hoito, Crack Platoon-e korto oigula
Interviewer: That means, regular muktibahini?
That means, the regular liberation front?
Regular muktibahini, haan. Tai aami Gopibag-er arek chheler maddhome jaante paarlam je ora omuk din, ekta team choley gachhey, dhawro aamakey bollo, je thik achhey aapni aaro ponero din shawmay nyan, ponero deen pawrey arekta, arekbaar jaabey tara, tawkhon aar, tumi jetey paarbey taader shathey, then I contacted... maney tader shathey jogajog korlam je haan aamio jabo... toh aamra ekhon certain date fix kawra holo, then I oito okhaney gelam, nirdishto ek jayagay, shekhan theke aamra raona deelam...then aamader teen chaar deen laglo jete, just straight okhan thekey choley gelam shei ishey, Nawyragawr-er shei hashpataley...
The regular liberation front...yes. So the Gopibag guys said that one team has left and one more would leave in fifteen days and I wanted to join, so I met them at a fixed time and date, it took three four days in the journey straight to the Nawyranagawr hospital...
Interviewer: Oh it was already set up. It was not set up by you?
Interviewer: Oh it was already set up. It was not set up by you? (AQM mahmood: Hoon?) Aapni giye set up korenni?
Na na na na na. It was altready set up there. (Interviewer: Achchha, already set up.) Haan, aamar agei.
No no. It was altready set up there. Before me.
Interviewer: From the beginning, maaney, after the crackdown.
From the beginning, meaning, after the crackdown.
Haan taa to bawtei, oboshshoi. Crack down-er awnek pawrey. Dhirey dhirey dhirey bibhinno stage-ey holo sheta. Sheta toh oi boitey paabey tomar. Haan, kibhabe shuru holo eta. Hashpataler kibhabe bistaar holo, konjayga theke kon jaygay gelo. Prathomey ki awbostha chhilo, dhirey dhirey... Aami giye jekhaney pelam oi jagatei ultimately last porjonto chhilo, tawkhon judhdher pawr-o eksmash aamra chhilam... juddho shesh hoye jawar pawreo... hawytoh etar bistaar hoyechhey awnek, pawrobortitey aaro, kintu aami jekhanei gechhi, shekhanei chhilam. Aamakey awnno jaygay shift kortey hawy ni.
Yes, surely Much after crackdown. Then in developed slowly in many stages. Youwill get those details in that book. How it started, developed, shifted. Where I joined, it was there till the end, we were there one more month after the battle stopped. It might have developed further still but we didn't have to shift after we joined.
How did you find it when you went?
Interviewer: Toh giye hashpataler awbostha ki dekhlen?
Giye hashpataley dekhlam tomaar motamutibhabey awnek injured chhelepile achhey, haan, awnek injured chhelepile achhey already...
(Interviewer: Taarta shoriye neen) Haan?
We saw a lot of injured kids there.
(Interviewer: Shift the wire please)
Interviewer: Na giye hashpataler awbosthata kemon dekhlen, aapni jawkhone gelen?
No what was the state of the hospital, when you went?
Hashpatal boltey toh eita...hashpatal toh eita ekta maather moddhey toiri kawra ekta dhawro, newly constructed baansher berar ekta, kicchu taanbu, kicchu bera-r haspatal, ei...achhey. Kintu chikitsha hochchhey, chhoto chhoto surgery-o hochchhey. Ta ami jawar pawrey eta ashtey ashtey aro bawro holo, jemon tawkhone bilat theke Momin bhai aashlen. Dr. Momin. Tarpor Jaffer-ulla ashlen. Jaffer-ulla eshey choley gelen aabar, Kintu... Dr. Momin. Maaney surgeon.
It was in a field, some bamboo structure, some tents. Treatments happening, some small surgeries even. Then it developed, Dr. Momin (Surgeon) came from abroad. Then Jaffer-ulla.
Interviewer: Momin-uddin Chowdhury?
Interviewer: Momin-uddin Chowdhury?
Na. Doctor M. A. Momin.
No. Doctor M. A. Momin.
Interviewer: Dr. Jaffer-ulla being...
Interviewer: Dr. Jaffer-ulla being...
Jaffer-ulla, from public health...
Jaffer-ulla, oi gawnoshashther..
From health department? He was at your hospital?
Interviewer: Shashtho daftawr theke? (?) He was at your hospital?
Haan uni okhaney chhilen. Kintu uni okhaney thaken nai. Okhaney eshey...abaar okhan thekey choley gachhen.
Yes, he was there, briefly.
Interviewer: Uni kothay galen?
Where did he go to?
Four five of the doctors came from abroad. So he left Momin Bhai and went off to do his duty elsewhere.
Uni...onara toh bilat thekey ashlen. Kawyekjone ashlen. Char paanch jone daktar aashlen. To eshey Momin-bhai-ke rekhey, maaney uni further onno kaaj kawrar jonno anno dikey gelen aar ki.
I heard that Dr. Jaffer-ulla was out of country.
Interviewer: Aami shunechhilam je Dr. Jafer-ulla desher bairey chhilen.
Bairei chhilen... Jaffer-ulla bilat thekei aashlen. shawbai bilatey onara lyakha pawra kawrten. (Interviewer: Achchha) Onader fellowship-er jonno lyakha-pawra kawrten. Toh onara juddher shawmoy toh keu fellowship tawkhono keu shesh korenni... Tawkhon aabar juddhey jog debar jonno ashlen.
Bibhinno sector-e bibhinno... Jaffer-ulla shaheb jemon Syed (?) shaheb bibhinno jaygay awnno jayagay kaaj korlen. To ekhane onekdin awbosthan korey, khub beshidin kaaj korenni. Kintu ekhaney chhilen. Dr. Jafferulla-o ashchhilen, gachhen. Kintu Dr. Momin-e shawbshomoy chhilen, all along... Toh Dr. Jafferbhai-o achhilen, sheshdikey, Dr. jafferbhai-o, amaar jawddur mawney pawrey...Jafferbhai shahayito... ami... tawkhone...
Yes indeed. They were all studying abraod for their fellowships. They were in the middle of it. But came over to contribute to the liberation war all across the country, Jaffer-ulla, Mr. Syed came for some time. But Momin-bhai stayed all along.
He was there when the freedom came?
Interviewer: Shadhinawtar (?) shawmoye chhilen...?
Haan. Tawkhone ishey thekey...mela kortey giye, Sector two thekey, Tripura thekey, border cross korey Chittagong gelam, abaar pherot ashlam. taarpawrey onara Dhaka ashlen. Aami roye gelam India-te. Aamio Dhaka-y ekbar ashlam tomar, dhawro ekush baish tarikher dikey hawbey. Sholo tarikh shadhin hawar pawrey, ba teish tarikh hawbey hawyto, exactly kheyal nei. Tawkhon Dhakay du teen din awbosthaner pawrey abaar pherot gelam aami, karone patient-ra roye gachhey awnekey, tai na? Toh aamakey bollo tumi pherot jao, then ami...I stayed there...till...I think it is sixteeneth of January or so.
(Ambient caws of crow )
Yes. Then to join the celebration...from sector two, via Tripura, crossed the border to Chittagong and came back. Then they came to Dhaka. I stayed in India. I came to Dhaka too around twenty first, twenty second or was it twenty third? After the liberation on the sixteenth. Stayed for two three days, then went back for the patients as ordered and stayed back till sixteenth january or so.
(Ambient caws of crow)
So you missed out on Shaikh Mujib's visit.
Interviewer: Toh..Shaikh Mujibur eshechhilen...taar shawb miss korechhen?
Haan aami shawb miss korechhi. Ami tawkhone Dhaka-y chhilam na. ji.
Yes, was not in Dhaka then.
Interviewer: It was the end of January (?)...
Interviewer: It was the end of January (?)...
Haan. Aami Dhakay chhilam na.
(Interviewer: Achchha. Ummm)
Yes, was not in Dhaka then.
Tarpor totally hospital gutiye choley ashlam aamra Kumilla-te. Ta aami Kumilla-te aar jaini, aami Dhaka-y shawrashori choley ashlam, aamader patient-ra shift holo Kumilla-r tomaar Combined Military Hospital-e.
Then we wrapped up and came back to Kumilla. I came straight to Dhaka though. Patients were shifted to Combined Military Hospital.
They were all in running condition?
Interviewer: Maaney danrano obosthay chhilo toh?
Interviewer: Maaney Combined Military Hospital-e ora daanrano obosthay chhilo ki?
Meaning they were all in running condition at Combined Military Hospital.
Haan, maaney jai hok, jebhabei hok, ekhaney eshey taara shift holo aar ki. Je obosthatei hok. Daanrano oboshshoi chhilo, motamuti je bhabei hok, ekta shift holo.
Yes, somehow they all were shifted.
Hospital was in a reduced state...
Interviewer: Hospital-tay kawm korey dewa hawyni...
Aamar mowney hawy na.
Don't think so.
Any memorable event while working there...
Interviewer: Na nishchoi na, jawkhone... Achchha emni jokhon aapni hashpataley aanlo, jawkhone kaaj shuru korlen, maaney hashpataley kaaj shuru korte korte kono sharoniyo ghawtona achhey jeta you can mention... or maney sort of things...
Haan...shoroniyo ghawtona dhawro...shoroniyo ghawtonao toh achhey...shoroniyo ghawtona (repeats himself) boltey ki..ekekdeen ekekjoner chawmokeprawdo...ekekta chhelepiley ashto, taader kacchey tomaar...tara je bhetorey tomar action kortey jeto, taader ghawtonar biboron deeto, taader shahoshikawta, taader...ebong shadhinawtar jonney commitment, egulo dekhey awnek...shawb chawmokeprodo hoitam aar ki, jodio taara awnekei absolutely nonpolitical chhilo, shay hawyto kichhui bojhe nai, kintu ei shadhinawta juddher shorik hawatey taara...all on a sudden taader moddhey ekta shadhinawtar jonno...aro abegapluto hoyei nishchoi join korechhey, ebong taara jebhabey action-e jeto, taar biboron dito, taarpawr injured hoye ashto taader kachhey bibhinno gawlpo shunechhi. Taarpawrey dhawro ekdin...Sanaulla boley ek chhele, he was injured. Taar life was at a stake. Taakey rawkto ditey hawbey. Ki korey rawkto dibo...tarpor rawkto dewar taarpawre eito aamra gelam ekta bohu durey...raater belay gelam tomaar ei Indian ek advanced jay station chhilo, shekhaney laboratory...chhoto laboratory-r facility chhilo, maaney tomar blood ditey geley toh tomaar aamra blood donate...aami nijeo shekhaney blood donate korechhi...haan? Tomaar ei cross matching, group-er byapar achhey, oi chheler blood niye shekhaney galam, haan? Kintu mrityur aageo...shay mara jaayni oboshsho bodhhawy...na chheleta maara jaayni, chheleta achhey, maara jeto aarki, mawrononmukh chhilo ekebaarey, maaney mumurshu, war camp thekey war field thekey aashchhey. Blood na diley hawytoh taar, taakey transfer kawrar-o upay chhilo na kothao, eto, emoni obostha, tawkhon aamra okhan theke blood crossmatching korey, blood diye...Indian advanced station thekey taarpor, ami nijeo blood donate korlam, taarpawr blood dewa hoilo, taarpor aaro amaar bondhu du ek jone bondhu shongi shaathi, taarao korlo, taakey ultimately taake...konobhabe save korey gelo. Aro onek young chhelepile dekhechhi jaara maaney shadharon khetre dekhle mawney hawbey na je era etota durdhawrsho ba etota maaney juddher jonno tomaar eto committed. Kintu taara awnek chawmokeprodo kaaj taara korse...
Yes the most memorable things were when the injured kids talked about their actions and their commitments shone through. Many didn't join for political reasons at all, but for emotional reasons, to free their country. Then there was this kid called Sanaulla who was in dire need of blood transfusion and we took him to an Indian facility very far, in the laboratory there we had also donated blood... after crossmatching, group-matching, he was transfused and was almost brought back from the dead. There were these plain looking kids who nobody would believe were capable of such heroic feats which they did...
But in general they were from...
Interviewer: Ebong shadharon bhabey taara ki...
Shadaharon bhabey taara awnekei graamer chhelepile...shadharon gramer iskooler, intermediate college-y pawrey ei dhawroner chhelepiley (ambient sound of hawker hawking goods) taar agey hawyto shawb...awnekeri rajniti-r shathey eder awnekeri jogshajosh chhilo na...
They were mostly village kids...from school....intermediate...mostly nonpolitical...(ambient sound of hawker hawking goods)
Interviewer: Maaney majority of the people, jaader dekhechhen aapni fight kortey, fight kortey (AQM Mahmood: Hoon..) tader...
Meaning the majority you saw...
Lower middle class, or absolutely nimnobitto, doridro poribaar thekeo awnek gechhey. Amio dekhechhi okhaney, maaney jodi aamader hospitaler statistics newa jaay...beshirbhaage-e nimnobitto ebong maaney nimnomoddhobitter chhelepiley...
(sound of tea cup being put back on the saucer)
Mostly lower-middle class, very poor...statistically they would have been the majority
(sound of tea cup being put back on the saucer)
Any educated kids...
Interviewer: Shikkhito chhelepiley dekhechhilen kono...je...
Na shikkhitio chhelepiley shawhorer chhelepiley dekhechhi, jemon Dhaka shawhorer chhelepile, taaaderke dekhechhi, kintu majority of the
injured jaaderke dekhechhi.
(Interviewer: Aamakey ektu chini diye deben? Thanks.
AQM Mahmood: Haan.)
ermoddhe tomaar, tawtkalin, Pakistan army-r je shawb sepahi, taara toh nimnobitto-e boltey hawbey, jaaderkey injured dekhechhi, taara regular fighting-e hoke...taader nettrittei onnora fight kortey jeto, era taader shathei bibhinno bhag korey dewa hoyechhilo toh... taara-o injured hoto, taara-o ashto
(Servant: Kawy chamoch chini? AQM Mahmood: Ek chamoch.)
Some educated city kids, say from Dhaka.
(Interviewer: Sugar please? Thanks.
AQM Mahmood: Yes.)
But not the majority, the pakistani Army, the frontline fighters, the injure, they used to come...
(Servant: How many spoons?
AQM Mahmood: One.)
At that place?
Interviewer: Aapnader okhaney?
Interviewer: And you would not refuse them treatment?
Interviewer: And you would not refuse them treatment?
No no, it was basically, toiri-e hoyechhilo toh prothomey naam chhilo ' Bangladesh Armed Forces Hospital', because, kawthata bujhtey parchho? pawrobortitey, e maaney civilian ebong non-civilian maaney jaara army-r ubhawy-e ekhane bhorti hoto.
No, no, it was basically, from the beginning, called ' Bangladesh Armed Forces Hospital', Later both army and the civilians were treated.
Oh by Pakistani army you mean bengali officers?
Interviewer: O taholey Pakistani army boltey bojhachchhen Bangali officer?
Bangali officer, bangali...haan
Yes, Bengali Officers
Oh I thought...
Interviewer: Achchha ami bhebechhilam...
Pakistani army -r jaara shawdoshsho chhilo.
The members of Pakistani army.
I thought that the POW-s were treated.
Interviewer: Achcha ami bhebechhilam je POW-der-ke treat kawra hoto.
No no, not at all.
No no, not at all.
(AQM Mahmood: Not at all, haan.
Interviewer: Naaro naki chai-ta.
The servant: Naa, ami ektu nerechhi, tawbey tomar jodi aro dawrkar lagey...
(AQM Mahmood: Not at all.
Interviewer: Have you stirred the tea?
The servant: No...I stirred a bit, stir more if you want.
E...tomaar Sector two-er je headquarter chhilo, shekhan thekei funding hoto. Ei funding-ta hawytoh abaar bibhinnno source thekey aashto. Sector two jeta, sheta Bangladesh Govt.-er...Provincial (?) Govt. involved chhilo. Hawytoh Indian Govt.-er shahajjo achhey. arthik shahajjo. Tarpor plus pawroborti bibhinno colleateral source theke je Indian relief and rehabilitation ministry, byaktigawto donation, haan? Erawkomo-o chhilo.
Sector two headquarter was where the funding came from many sources: Bangladesh provincial Government, Indian relief and rehabilitation ministry, personal donation...
So actually, it was not set-up by any individual.
Interviewer: Toh actually, it was not set-up by any individual.
No, first us individuals went, but ultimately it went under angladesh Armed Forces' supervision.
No, na prothomei initially gecchi individual-ra, kintu ultimately it went under a... Bangladesh Armed Forces-er shawrashori tawttabawdhaney gachhey.
Interviewer: Kon daktarera shuru korechhilen? Sheta bawla jaay na...
Which doctors started it? Can you tell?
Major Akhtar was there, I mean Captain Akhtar
(Interviewer: The one who wrote...)
Yes. First he was this side. Dr. Nazim, civilian...
Yes. Then my friend Shamshuddin...
Na ota, Major Akhtar chhilen, Ei Captain Akhtar
(Interviewer: The one who wrote... )
Haan oboshshoi. Prothomey edikkarer daktar chhilen, Dr. Nazim, civilian...
Haan oboshshoi. Haan enara. Taarpawr Shamshuddin-o prothomdikkar, aamar je bondhu Shamshuddin...
Ok. I remembered something i forgot to ask...Since you decided to join this group in India, you were clearly pro-Awami...
Interviewer: Umm...agey ekta jinish jiggesh kortey gechhilam bhuley gechhi, ekhon mawney porlo amar...Oi, aapni toh decision-ta nilen to go with this group to India, toh clearly pro-Awami?
Not necessarily, not at all. (Interviewer: It's not.) Not at all, not at all.
Not necessarily, not at all. (Interviewer: It's not.) Not at all, not at all.
That's why you described them as liberation front.
Interviewer: Toh aapni taader-ke describe korlen muktibahini hishabey.
How much did you know about their organisation?
Interviewer: Achchha aapni ki jaanten taader organisation shawmmondhey?
Je na ora...
That they were...
Did you see them as the student league?
Interviewer: What did you see them aar ki? Did you see them as chhatro shangathon or...
In the beginning...I was not so sure...who do you mean?
Na taara...taader...na...okhane giye thik oderkei prothome awtota...kaader kawtha bolchho eta?
No I mean your direct connection with the labour revolution...
Interviewer: Maaney aapnar chhatro...sorry sromik andoloner shathey shawrashori sangjog chhilo ekta je...
Ba aaro awnekey jaara chhilo...muktibahinir shawbai toh ei hashpataley ashey nai...dhawro bibhinno camp-ey kaaj kortey gachhey, recruitment-e jeta shunechhi aar ki, onar onnoder mukhey jeta shunechhi, onader proti taader beshi soft corner chhilo, onar, bishesh bhabey...commanding officer of the whole sector two...
There were others...not all of liberation front was in this hospital...they worked and recruited across many camps...what we had heard is, the commanding officer of sector two had special soft corner for them...
So let me rephrase my question...think I am not being clear....You were against the election thinking that through election nothing will happen except pakistani middle class would be replaced by Bengali middle class. All these skirmishes happened because of election
(AQM Mahmood: Could be)...
But then when you joined the war, what was your motivation?
Interviewer: To aami je proshnota ghuraya phiraya jigganor chashta korchhilam je, thik jiggasha kortey parchhilam na je ...aapni kintu je andoloner shathey chhilen, before the election, it was against contesting the election
(AQM Mahmood: of course).
And did not participate.
(AQM Mahmood: Hoon.)
Tawkhon apni or okhane-o (?) gechhilen
(AQM Mahmood: Na.)
In fact, aapnader kawtha chhilo je, through election, nothing will happen.
(AQM Mahmood: Nothing will happen.)
Sheta toh bolechhilen. Through election only ei Pakistan-er middle class will be replaced by bangali middle class. Ei
jhamela (?) je laaglo, it was the result of that election. Oi election-er result chhilo, taar phawl
(AQM Mahmood: ta hawytoh hotey paarey, oboshshoi. )
Aapni election-ta toh support kawrenni, haan? Kintu aapni juddhey galen. Maaney aami jeta jiggesh kortey chachchhi je, keno galen? What was the motivation? Na...
Na aamra toh shadinawta cheyechhi, Shadinota juddho legei galo, je pretext-ei hok na keno, ta aami money korechhi aamar participate kawrata dawrkar.
No we wanted freedom , no matter the war was at whatever pretext, we had to join...
But it was clear that the battle was being fought with the leaership of Awami League...was there any apprehensions about them coming to power...
Interviewer: Kintu eta toh nischoi, dekhte parsen je juddho is being fought with the Awami league as the... and that's why...ultimately ei byapare ki kono shawndeho chhilo, je they are going to get the power, if the war is fought, maaney you are fighting a war
Na...we fought for the liberation, tawkhone netritto niye awtota chinta korini aar ki, je kaar nettrito hochchey, tawkhone aamra hawyto bhebechhi je hawyto ekhane ekta liberation front hawbey, bibhinno element thakbey, jemon Vietnamese liberatio front-e bibhinno...society-r bibhinno strata-r loke liberation fight korechhey...tai na? Ekhaneo bhebechhi sherawkome kichhu hawbey...bibhinno drishtibhongir loke thakbey, kintu jaara purbobanglar liberation chay, mukti chay, taader ekta front hawbey, na ultimately sherawkom ekta front-er hawbar kawthao chhilo juddher dike...kintu sheta ultimately technical karoney ba jekono karonei hoke, sheta hawyni.
(Interviewer: Ba ichchhakritobhabey...)
(Interviewer: Aapni to je...)
Taara mawney korechhey je bhabey...those who are elected by the people, je oidhawroner ekta Government jodi toiri kawra jaay, taara hawyto world attention beshi pabey, world support beshi pabey, legitimacy beshi pabey...jodi onnano dawl-er e niye..tawbey ekta coordination committee toh chhilo, muktijuddher (Ambient sound of hawkers) government jemon ekta chhilo, shadhin banglar, abar sherokom coordination committee-o chhilo, jekhane Mujjafar Ahmed, Mani Singh ba Kazi Zaffer aar Rashid Khan (?) era oi coordination committe-r member chhilo. Bhashani-o chhilen ore moddhey. Jodio baar baar Bhashani-ke juddher shesher dikey kintu motamutibhabe house intern hishebe rakha hoyechhilo. To keno exact details aami hawyto bolte paarbo na. Kintu awbosthata tai chhilo.
No...we fought for the liberation and not for the leadership and we thought the libeartion front, like the Vietnam liberation front will have equal representation from all parts of the society and there was supposed to be a front like that during the war, which didn't happen...
(Interviewer: By design perhaps..)
they thought such a government elected by people would get more attention, support and legitimacy from the world
(Ambient sound of hawkers)
but there was a coordination committee with Mujjafar Ahmed, Mani Singh ba Kazi Zaffer, Rashid Khan and even Bhashani, though Bhashani was house arrested towards the end...
That had a legitimate reason perhaps...
Interviewer: Umm...sheta awboshsho ekta I suppose...legitimate kaaron..je egulo ekta (?)
Haan sheta legitimacy-r jonne hawyto chhilo...
Yes, that could have been for legitimacy...
But in your head...
Interviewer: Kintu aapnar mathay...
But after the war was over, there could have been a national government and national election instead of one party taking all the credit and dictating all the terms in making the government and constitution...
Tawbey hawyto sheta juddho jawkhone shesh hoye gelo tawkhone Bangladeshe eshey ekta national goverment hotey paarto ebong national government je under-e ekta constitution toiri hoye shekhaney election hotey paarto, sheta hawyni. Maaney oi dawl-e jaara ekok bhabei juddher credit newar-o cheshta korechhe, ekokbhabey taara hawyto je kono karonei hok taarai government form korechhey...taader under-ei election hoyechhey...taader under-ei constitution hoyechhey
Hypothetically if you could foresee the future...when you went in August...
Interviewer: Taholey ekta kawtha koi, eta ekebarey hypothetical...jodi aapni ager thekey dekhte paarten, aapni toh August mashey gachhen, tawkhone national government hawyni but you were..
Na government toh oboshshoi hoyechhey. Government tomar April mashey hoyechhey.
No Governemnt was formed in April...
The committee with Bhashani, Ayaz Khan Memon....
Interviewer: Achcha but he was not fully described... Bhashani, Ayaz Khan Memon ederke niye je committee, that was...
Na ei committee, toh already tawkhone hoye gachhey. Apriley... apriley hawyni, pawrobortitey hoyechhey.
That had already been formed. April... no later.
But Bhashani was in between...
Interviewer: Achcha Bhashani toh majhkhane...
Na Bhashani aaro pawrey, Bhashani jawkhone gachhen, tawkhone hoyechhey
No when Bhashani went off, it was done then...
He disappeared in between....
Interviewer: Maajhkhane toh uni gayeb-e chhilen.
(AQM Mahmood: Haan..)
He was nowhere...
Haan, Bhashani jawar pawrei hoyechhe eta
Yes it happened after Bhashani left...
If you foresaw that the freedom would come in this form and the Seventy two Government would have these people and not your people...not even represented in token form...You definitely would have had some hesitation...
Interviewer: Umm...apni jodi...jodi tawkhone jaanten je you would have seen, jay...ummm...seventy two te je jinishta ghotlo sheta not a government of national reconsideration
(AQM Mahmood: Hoon)
but ami jaani je it was not correct (?)...if you had seen that jay ei hawbey, aami kintu onno desher kawtha bolchhi na, je Bangladesh hawa uchit chhilo ki uchit chhilo na...ota na...not that...but just rather ei jay, that these people will come to power and not your people...haan...and not in any sort of representation, not even as a token seat
(AQM Mahmood: Haan..)
taholey ki aapnar kicchu hesitation thakto? Maaney nischoi oi byaparey hesitation na jay aginst the Pakistan army or ki
(AQM Mahmood: Haan... )
Na aboshshoi hoto, tumi jeta bolchho, haan, oboshshoi thakto hawyto. Ami totally eder niye netritte ei kichhu ekta maaney khub je ekta biraat desher pragati hawbey, rawmrawma unnoti hawbey, kawkhonoi amaar ei conviction amaar kawkhonoi chhilo na...kintu certain karoney tactical karoney taader shathey aami hawytoh kaaj korechhi mowney kawro... taader shathey shekhaney awnno bohu loke gechhilo... juddher shawmoy toh shudhu taara chhilo na, bibhinno element-e chhilo. Haan kintu ultimately, leadership hawytoh taader chhilo, on the political side... maaney government wise, legitimacy-r jonno... kintu juddho toh shawbai korese...
Yes definitely... not that I had great hopes on them about bringing progress and development... but had to fight while keeping them as leaders for tactical reasons... but it was not just them... we all fought
Except the case of Jamal
Interviewer: Except Jamal-er case (?)
Haan, awnek chhelepile-e korechhey. Jaara... agey hawyto political affiliation chhilo na, emon bohu chhelo shadhinawta juddher pawr awnek birawttopurno juddho korechhey, pran diyechhey... purbobanglar shadhinawta awnekei cheyechhay... shawbai, majority of the people... even jaara dashe chhilo, taara ki shadhinawta chhay ni? Shudhu jaara gachhey taarai cheyechhey taato na. Jaara dashey chhilo taara-o toh cheyechhe. Taader moddheo majority... ninety five percent loke-e shadhinawta cheyechhey. Hawyto five percent lokey chaay ni. Maximum hawyto ten percent lokeo hawbey jaara hawyto eta shawmorthon kawrey nai. Ba hawyto crackdown-er aagey jaara awnekey shadhinawtar kawtha shawmorthon kawre nai, taarao crackdown-er pawrey shawmorthon korecheey. Tai na?
Yes, so many absolutely non-political kids did heroic deeds, gave their lives even after the war... it's not just people who left wanted freedom... people who stayed back, ninety five percent of them wanted freedom... five percent didn't maybe, ten percent at the most... people who didn't want it before crackdown... wanted it after...
This is off-mike, you were politically invested but many who just got into the flow suddenly just through blind emotion... but confused about what exactly to do... did you ever get to discuss these issues with any like-minded people? Like what;s going to happen later like the anti-Ershad uprisings...
Interviewer: Eta oboshsho off-mike (?) Aapnar toh dhren awnek, jehetu political awnek eduaction chhilo jemon aapnara toh ekta nationalist chintabhabna chhilo, awnekey shay kawtha toh janena... taader gut level-ey pounchhechhey
(AQM Mahmood: Hmm...)
Kunreghawrey vote ditechhilam (?), taarpawrey jawkhone chapaye dilo, tawkhone khepe galo
(AQM Mahmood: Hmm...)
maaney ekdom genyo loker bypar aar ki... aami khepe galam
(AQM Mahmood: Haan... )
sheta... eta toh awnekta kichhui chhilo... je baam element was confused as to what to do, because at one side they want Bengal's liberation at the same time they were nervous about what to be done (?) pawrobortitey jaa holo that... maaney was something good, sheta ki oder moddheo dekhechhilen? Eta oboshsho aapnar political maaney juddho chhrao toh obstacles (?) thake, tawkhone aapnar... maney aapnar mentality-r kauke peyechhen jaakey... jaar shathey eta niye konoshawmoy alochana hoyechhilo je... had some hesitation about this... dhawren Ershad-birodhi andolon-tay what is going to happen afterwards...
Maaney jeta boltey chachchho je juddher aamra jerom chai jerawkome Bangladesh aamra chai shayrawkome Bangladesh aamra dekhbo kina, haan? Haan, ets dui-ekjoner shathey hawyto alaap korechhi, Shamshuddin jemon, jaara like-minded chhilam taader shathey alaap korechhi hawyto
(Interviewer: Maaney Shamshuddin was that person...)
haan...more or less...naa, shay shromik andoloner chhilo na, shay chintadhray kichhuta maaney pro-left chhilo, shay jehetu aamra ekhane...jay aamader bairer jawgotay organisation chhilo, medical collegey, aamra ek-e organisation kortam, chhatro union, jeta, sheta-e kortam...
You mean whether the bangladesh of our dreams ever be a reality? Yes we got discussing about it with friends like Shamshuddin, people in Medical College...
Do you remember any of that?
Interviewer: Taar shathey aapnar ki alochona..kichhu money achhey?
Alochona eitai hoyechhay je aamader ultimately ki hawbey maaney kintu aamra toh dharona korini je hawytoh ei government-e... aamra bhebechhilam hawyto je shadhin holey national government form hawbey... national government-er undery hawyto... err... notun constitution hawbey, shekhaney notun, shei constitution-er maddhome, prothome je... jawto election hawbey... jaara jawnogawner mandate niye jaara aashbey taarai rule korbey desh... ei dhawroner chinta ekta okahney korechhi, jehetu eta ekdome pro-left kono organisation-er netrittey hochchhey na, oi dhawroner chinta-ta tawkhone... nijer (?) awbosthankaaley oi dhawroner chinta-bhabnai chhilo...
Yes... we thought of a national government... national constitution under them... winners would rule...
But didn't you think that if there is a second election, Awami League will probably win that one too? But perhaps Bhashani would participate.
Interviewer: Kintu etao ki clear chhilo na ki if there is a second election, Awami League will probably win that one too? But perhaps Bhashani would participate.
Haan. Tawbey jehetu mass organisation Awami League-er-e shawbcheye shawkto, taara ashben, eibyaparei kono temon shawndeho chhilo na.
(Interviewer: Kichhu seat hawyto...)
Yes, but since Awami league had the strongest mass organisation, they would have come to the power even then,
(Interviewer: Some seats...)
could have gone to others...
But did you realistically expect that they would hold another election of the...after independence?
Interviewer: But realistically, aapni ki mowney hoyechhilo je taara arekta election hold korbey?
(AQM Mahmood: Haan?)
Na aapni ki realistically bhebechhilen that they would hold another election of the...after independence?
But if they would have held another election then we would have known how many votes they would have got...
Na jodi national government-er underey jodio ekta election hoto shottikar awrthey kawtota vote taara peto taara hawyto abey... seventy hawyto majority hawyto taara pete paarto hawyto.
Interviewer: Kintu aapni bhebechhilen je taara arekta election hold korbey? Which is also a major....
But did you think that they would hold another election of the... after independence?
What do you exactly mean? Awami League again would hold election meaning...
Na na na na na. Hold korbey maaney ki? Awami League abar... maaney bujhtey parini tomaar kawthata...
Not necessarily Awami League. But didn't you think that after the battle, power would be transferred to Awami League without question...
Interviewer: Na Awami League na, maney kawtha hochchhey je eta ki ekta realistic chinta chhilo je arekta election hawbey? Maaney wouldn't you think je juddho jawkhon-e shesh hoke, power will be handed over to Awami League
(AQM Mahmood: Na)
without question? Since everyone...
No I didn't think so. I thought national government would form and a national constitution and a national election under that...Not under the Awami League Government.
Na aami eta mowney korini. Aami eta mowney korechhi je ekta national government form hawbey
Haan bhebechhilam. Ebong shai government-e tomar notun election-er daak dibey, notun election korbey, notun shawngbidhaner under-e, not under the Awami League Government.
And this friend of yours
(AQM Mahmood: Hmm...he had the same view also)
...he had the same opinion. But as Bhashani kept disappearing, he also complained that he was not being listened to. So you didn't have any hesitation that something is going wrong?
Interviewer: And this friend of yours
(AQM Mahmood: Hmm, shay...he had the same view also)...
he had the same opinion. Kintu oi jemon jemon Bhashani je baar baar gayeb hoye jaay, maajhe kintu he also complained je aamar kawtha kichhui shona hochchhey na.
(AQM Mahmood: Hmm)
na he made it clear je aami aapnar moddhey kichhuta maney hesitation aashto na je something is going wrong?
Hawyto aaschhilo exactly kheyal nai. Shawngshawy hawyto kichhuta chhilo... kintu aami bhebechhilam jay Shadhin hawbey otai tawkhone hawyto oitai beshi kaaj korechhay hawyto...Kintu ultimately jawkhone shadhin holo tawkhone eder nettritto jawkhone kayem holo ebong taara awnnoderke... e... mistreating... they started mistreating others, tawkhon-e ekta ashabhwanger bedona dekha diyechhay definitely aamader moddhe...
Maybe but we were more focussed on the freedom but after that when they became leaders and started mistreating others... there was definitely the pain of disillusion...
Interviewer: Aapni byaktigawtobhabey toh kothao kichhur shikar hawnni... after...
Were you victimized... after...
Na, ami byaktigawtobhabey kono kichhur shikar hoini awboshshoi..na
No I was not...
Interviewer: Tawkhone...tawkhone bodhhawy role-o komey gachhey...
Then your role was also reduced...
Haan... oboshshoi... haan... exactly
Interviewer: Because... you had also
(AQM Mahmood: Yes, exactly)
... as it happens
(AQM Mahmood: Yes, exactly)
This I heard from a lot of people...
Interviewer: Because...you had also
(AQM Mahmood: Yes, oboshshoi, exactly)
(AQM Mahmood: Yes, exactly, Ji)
Eta awneker thekei shunechhi je...
Play kawrar prwasnoi uthey na. Taholey it would have been definitely... as badly as before... Pakistan amoley ja hoto, Bangladesher Government-o tai korechhey... bohu lokke merechhey... Shaikh Mujiber aamoley bohu loke maara gechhey... Seventy four-er aagey eta... tai na? Seventy three, four-er dikei tawkhon contradiction already shuru hoye gachhey... E amar mowney hawy eijay mowney kawro eijay... aamar toh mowney hoyechhey jay... shadharon lokra toh juddho korechhei kintu netritter deek thekey ei je bibhinno drishtibhongir alada aashtey aashtey haowa shuru korechhey jay... Bibhinno aamar mowney hawy Bangladesh shawrkarer ki bhumika haowa uchit... ki drishtibhongi... ki stand newa uchit... juddho kibhabe porichalona kawra uchit... ei niyeo bodhhawy kichhu ektatawkhone thekei dhirey dhirey shuru hochchhilo aar ki... eta continue korlay aar ek bawchhore du bawchhorer moddhey hawytoh clear hoye jeto jay kaara kone dawley thakbe na thakbey... ke kaar shathey juddho korbey ba India thekei juddho korbo na bhetoray cholay jabo...
Playing was out of question... It would have been equally bad as the pakistan rule... In Shaikh Mujib's time, so many were killed... people kept fighting where among the leadership... they kept having their differences... on the government... on the direction of war... if it continued... things would have cleared up in a few years... a few would have left the party... who would fight whom... to fight from India or the interiors of the country...
Interviewer: Umm... Kolkatay je aaram aayesh korchhilo certain people... eishawb news ki eshechhilo tawkhone? I know that they...
What about the news regarding people having a cushy time at Kolkata?
Na erawkome eshechhey jay Awami netritto even hashpataley oshudh bikri korchhey jay... Jay ermoddhey shawbai hawyto kawrei... er moddhe patriotic... bohu patriot aachhey... kintu awnekey eidhawroner kaando kaarkhana korechhey... edhawroner... ebong sujog shubidha bhog kawrar ekta drishti... maaney oder moddhei ektu beshi chhilo... awpekkhakritobhabey...
No that news... but we got news about some of them selling off the medical supplies from hospital... not all... a few... there were patriots too... but opportunists as well...
And did that... polarise things?
Interviewer: And did that... je polarisation already tawkhone...
Yes, but before the polarisation could take a definite shape, the country was liberated.
Already... dhirey dhirey shuru haowa shuru korechhilo aar ki... kintu shuru haowar aagei desh shadhin hoye galo... kono ekta definite shape newar aagei aamra maney...
Interviewer: Maaney shawn....
Interviewer: Maaney shawn....
We expected more dedication and more work in certian sectors from the leadership but when we saw the same opportunism, we certainly though there should have been someone else...
Taader netrritte aaro beshi dedication asha korechhilam, kono kono khetre dhawro bibhinno jaygay sector wise je taader aaro ei dhawroner kaaj kawra uchit... shekhaney taader moddhey thik oi ager mawto deshiyo shubidhabaadi chintadhara kaaj korechhey dekhey nishchoi mawney korechhi je ei nettrito onnokaror kachhey thaakley bhalo hoto aaro... ei dhawroner mowney mowney hawyto bhebechhi. Je ei loke na hoye ou dhawroner kono loke howley hawytoh ei kaajta aaro bhalo korto aaro.
Interviewer: Any publicised event? I heard that Awami League-er Kolkata activity made a lot of people upset.
Interviewer: Kono publicised ghawtona ghotechhilo? Maaney aapni jeta niye... Aami kintu eta shunechhilam, je Awami League-er Kolkata activity made a lot of people upset.
Agartala-teo hawyto erawkome kichhu kicchu chhilo taara aaram aayeshey hotel-ey jeebanjapone kawra...
In Agratala also some of them might have led a cushy life in hotels...
Interviewer: Kintu aapni bolchhen hawyto kintu je kono publicised ghawtona...
Interviewer: You are saying might... but was there anything that happened for sure?
Na na na emon kono ghawtona shunini. Na ami shunechhi je osudh aashchhey, oshudh bajarey bikri hochchhey. Keno bikri korbey? Je osudh ashchhey, edeshey injured haowa lokjoner jonno, shay osudh bajarey bikri korey dewar toh kono karone nei. Byaktigawto munafa chhara awnno kono karone nei. Sheta shekhaney kortey jaabey keno? Taar jodi sherom dedication-e thakbey for the cause, taholey nobody should do it, kawrar prasno-e uththey paarey na tawkhone. Kintu temon kaaj-o keu keu korechhey. Shayrawkome ghawtona shunley nischoi kawshto petam.
Not really. But we sure heard of selling the hospital supplies in the open market, which clearly indicates greed and no dedication to the cause at all. That was painful to hear.
Interviewer: So such news came out?
(AQM Mahmood: Yes, some leaked.)
Not all could be suppressed...
Interviewer: Taar maney erokom news beroto?
(AQM Mahmood: Haan. Ber hoto. Kichhu kichhu leak toh hotoi)
Chapa hoto na...
Na, chapa, kichhu kichhu toh kaaney aschhey. Ekhon documented temon aashey nai. Kintu kaaney aschhey je eroom jinishpawtro...
(Interviewer: Eshawb jinish kawkhono documented asheo na...)
(Interviewer: Bangladesher mawto deshe ba ekhaney word is enough...)
Not documented though, all herad from people...
(Interviewer: These things are ever hardly documented... )
(Interviewer: In a country like Bangladesh, word is enough... )
Interviewer: Taholey maaney aapnar...maaney....aapney jerokom dekhsen...maaney your opinion, what should have happened? Maney Indira-r intervention-er (?) phawlei taratari hoye galo? Maney aapnar mawtey ideal liberation war kemon? Eta ektu onno byapar...personal experience na...maney just...
So as far as you saw, what should have happened? Was it faster because of the intervention of Indira (Gandhi)? What is an ideal liberation war like, for you?
If the war was prolonged, the more competent and patriotic of the Awami League would have evolved and come to the leadership, instead of some of the non-patriotic people there... who would have got weeded out... people who are more ready to sacrifice and suffer for good cause...
Oboshshoi prolong hole netrritter... aaro joggo nettritto ashto... Awami Leaguer shawbai je Awami League-r shathey thakto temon-o toh na... shaykhankaar thekeo bohu chhele hawyto shottikar awrthey juddher cause-r jonno choley aashto...emon-o aashto... taader moddhey patriotism-er awbhab... awneker moddhe patriotism-er awbhab chhilo shawkoler moddhey taa-to na... taader moddhey bohu patriot chhilo... hawyto onnobhabey guided chhilo... maaney juddho hoyechhey jawto beshi aaro choltey thakto, taader moddhe thekeo aaro awnek chheley ashto... ekhanthekeo kichhu chhele hawyto jhorey jeto... shottikar awrthei aaro total dedicated lokerai nettritte ashto... jaara aro kawshto shoitay paarbe... aaro attotyagey beshi dewar jonno prostut thakbey... tarai toh nettritte thakbey, taarai toh aashto... onnora toh jhorey jeto...taader choritro unmochito hoito... certain level-ey... kawtha bujhtey paarchho?
Interviewer: Did you hear anything like this?
Interviewer: Erom aar kicchu shonen ni? (?)
Na ami awto details tawkhono shunini. Na aami shuni nai. (Interviewer: Pawroborti-te toh awnek kichhu) Haan pawrobortitey shunechhi... je reconciliation-er cheshta korechhilo tawkhone-o. (Interviewer: In spite of the... ) Haan haan (Interviewer: hawyto etar phawle) Hawyto tawkhone shunlay eta aamra accept kortam naa, oboshshoi...
Not really, we heard later, at the time of reconciliation... if we knew earlier, would not have accepted...
Interviewer: Na shekhaney you saw it was very tightly guarded, obviously Awami League-r...
(AQM Mahmood: Hmm)
Umm....Kintu ei dhawren...aapnar political frame-y...this is what we would call...
Interviewer: You saw it in the Awami League was tightly guarded... now suppose...
Achchha aami jodi shromik andoloner shathey thaktey paartam, this would have been better, amaar tawkhone mowney hoyasey... kawkhono shawkhono mowney korini taa nawy... hawyto shromik andolon-er awnek bhool bhranti chhilo pawrobortitey bujhtey paartam... kintu tawkhone emotionally I was more attached... je ora kothay achhey... ki korchhey, kintu khawbore toh kichhu jaani na...
I think if I had stuck to the labour revolution, it would have been better... not that they didn't have their flaws... but was emotionally more attached with them... worry about other members... not knowing where they are...
Interviewer: But... they did their share of mistakes...
Interviewer: Ebong... maney... kin bhul bhrati korechhey...
Bhool bhranti korechhey amaar mowney hawy taader expansion-er shawmoye taara nanadhawroner recruitment-er hawthokaaritar porichawy ditechhey bibhinno kaajey... recruitment-e bhool korechhay jejonnay... they had to pay very dearly
The main mistake was during the rapid expansion... they recruited all and sundry... that was very poor judgement... they had to pay very dearly
Interviewer: maaney expansion boltey taholey aapni kon shawmoye bojhachhen? During...
Which time was this? During...
Na, just after the war. During and after the war. Hawthat korey taara jawkhone ei anti-Indian stand neelo, haan? Awnek disgruntled, chhelepilei tawkhone taader shathey jog dewar chashta korlo...Taara hawyto aamar mowney hawy...taara etey oti utshaho bodh korlo ebong jaakey taakey recruit kawra shuru korlo. Druto expansion of the party.
No, just after the war. During and after the war. When they suddenly took the anti-Indian stand. A lot of disgruntled elements joined them. For the sake of rapid expansion, all were absorbed.
Interviewer: So what was the second time...what was this about, maney koth thekey (?)....
Interviewer: So what was the second time... from where...
Haan oboshshoi. Shadhinawtar pawr-pawr-e
(Interviewer: maaney koth theke eta)
Taara tawkhone mowney korlo, taara jemon aagey Pakistan-er uponibeshbaad-ke number one contradiction dhorto... taar pawrpawr-e taara bollo je Bharotiyo shawmprosharonbaadita holo aamder eknawmbore shotru, aamra from frying pan to firey porechhi, aamder shadhinawta juddho shesh hawyni, aamaderke juddho chaliye jetey hawbey, kawthata bujhtey paarchho, ei niyei toh seventy four-e jay sixteenth December-ke black day hishabey hawrtaal udjaponer jonne call dilo
(Interviewer: Maaney ki hoyechhilo... )
Seventy four-er sixteenth December, je bijoyira (?) bawshey, taara call korlo, black day. Kawthata bujhtey paarley? Haawrtaal. Ebong awnekta hawrtaal bojhachchhilo, awnekta udjapito holo shayrawkome, maaney paalito holo. Seventy...taar kawdin pawrei toh, five-er January-te, early January-te dhawra porlen. Dhawra pawrar kaaron holo je party-r internal conflict thaktey paarey, ebong oti druto expansion-er kaaroney, maaney exposure-ta awnek, onar maaney awtota secrecy... guarded hawyto raakhte paarey nai...
Yes, after the war they first found the Pakistani Colonialism as their main enemy, then switched to Indian expansionism as their main enemy... we have been thrown to the frying pan from fire... the libeartion war is not over yet... That's why the sixteenth December of seventy four they called as black day... boycott... and it was kind of successful... Then he was caught in seventy five January, the reason could be internal conflict or over-exposure due to over expansion and compromise on secrecy...
Interviewer: Aapni etokkhon dhorey shromik anodoloner shawngay aandolon korchhilen...
And you were with labour revolution till then...
Eta Shawrbohara Party.
This was Proletariat Party.
Now you are talking about Proletariat Party... So labour revolution became Proletariat Party?
Interviewer: Now you are talking about Shawrbohara Party. Shromik andolon-e ki Shawrbohara party hoye gelo?
(To the servant: Thank you.) Shromik Andolon-e transfer hoye galo Shawrbohara Party hishabe. Seventy one-e holo eta.
Yes. In seventy one.
(To the servant: Thank you.)
This sixteenth December was after the famine?
Interviewer: Ei sholoi December Seventy Four is after the famine...
After the famine?
Interviewer: Durbhikkher pawrey?
Sholoi Decemeber seventy four-kei ora Black Day hishabey udjapito kawrar programme dilo...
Sixteenth December, Seventy four, was called to be observed as the black day...
Interviewer: And how was this...
Interviewer: Ebong how was this...
Reaction among the public?
Maaney shawb public toh aar ei drishtibhongi grahon kawrey na, kintu awnekei eta...maney...maney...
Reaction among the public?
All didn't agree... but...
Interviewer: This is also a reflection
(AQM Mahmood: Reflection)
maaney position at that time
(AQM Mahmood: position at that time)
kintu seventy three-tey ki eta shawmbhawb hoto?
Interviewer: This is also a reflection
(AQM Mahmood: Reflection)
of the position at that time
(AQM Mahmood: position at that time)
Could it have been possible during seventy three?
May be not... the slogan was It's Nineteen Seventy Three, Time for Shaikh Mujib to die... I heard A F M Mahbub say that in a speech at Batulnawgore... as a reaction to two Student Union kids being shot in front of Foreign Office by Awami League for anti-imperialist rallying...
Seventy three-tey hawyto eta shawmbhawb hoto na, kintu seventy three-teo toh awnekey... Unishsho tiattor shaal, Shaikh Mujib-er mawronekaal... awnno party-o slogan diyechhey awnek. Jemon aajkey BASOD-der Mahabub... A F M Mahbub bollo ami nijey shunechhi tomaar Batulnawgorer (?) boktritay bolechhey, Ami nijey shunechhi... Kenona seventy three-er January mashei tomaar e maara gelo na? Tomar chhatro union-er duto chheleke guli korey hotta korlo na Awami League government. Tomar isher e chawttorey jeta tomar ei Foreign officer shaamney, taara oi shamrajjobaad-birodhi procession-er uporey Awami League guli korlo. It was in seventy three January... jawddur...
Interviewer: Achchha, Chhatro Union?
(AQM Mahmood: Chhatro Union)
Not Shawrbohara Party
(AQM Mahmood: Na Chhatro Union)
Achccha what happened exactly ghawtonata, aami kintu jaani na, aapni jeta bolchhen...
Interviewer: Oh, Student Union?
(AQM Mahmood: Student Union)
Not Proletariat Party
(AQM Mahmood: No Student Union)
Tell me what happened... I don't know...
In seventy three, after this shooting, Student Union leader and DAKSU chief Mujahid Islam Selim tore up the DAKSU life memebership papers of Shaik Mujib....
Seventy three tei tomaar toh ei ghawtona ghotlo, ebong Chhatro Union-er ei jay Mujahid Islam Selim, Shaikh Mujib toh chhilen tawkhone life...ajibawn shawdoshsho Dhaka-r DAKSU-r (?) Uni to sheta chhinrey phellen DAKSU-r (?) VP tawkhone holo bodh hawy Selim, Mujahid Islam Selim. Eita ekdom Shaikh Mujiber ajibawn shawdoshsho pawd chhinre fele dilo. Taader ei gulir pawrey mowney hawy.
Interviewer: Achchha. Achchha. Ok. Ok.
Interviewer: Ok. Ok.
Chhatro Union-er chheler opor guli korechhey Police. Ebong maara gaylo dujon chhele. Kawtha bujhso? Ora bodh hawy ekta ye ekhono achhey. Ekono oi chawttor tay . Oi je holo oi chawttor. Kadam phuler je chawttor. Oi jay foreign office-er shamney je chawttorey. Okhaney ekta e chhilo. Ekhon bodhhawy uthiye felechhay kina jani na. Ekta oder smriti phawloke chhilo.
Police shot the Student Union cadres. Two died. Think there was a memorial plaque in that Foreign Office compound with Kadam flower tree. Might not be there anymore.
Interviewer: Achchha. Ebong aapni kaar kawtha bolchhen? A F M Mahababulla boltey..
Interviewer: OK. But who is this A F M Mahababulla you are talking about?
Na Mahbabul Haque... Je bawrtomaan BASOD kawrey...
No Mahbabul Haque... who is in BASOD now...
Interviewer: He was in Student Union then?
Interviewer: Achchha uni tawkhone ki korten? Chhatro Union?
Na uni tawkhone Chhatro Union na... Chhatro Union-e korten, kintu oi Chhatro Union... Moscow-baadi Chhatro Union na, onaar Chhatro Union na... Uni korten e sorry... JASOD-er jay Chhatro League chhilo sheta. Rawbab Shajahan Shirajer nettritte JASOD je alada hoye galo sheta. Shadhinawtar pawr pawr contradiction kintu taader moddheo shuru hoye gechhlo... ebong shawbai Chhatro League... Mujiber Chhatro League chhilo. Shekhan theke ashar pawrey boigganic shawmajtawntrer daak diye charjone netar moddhey dujone alada hoye galo, ebong tara ultimately JASOD form korlo, oi Jalil shaheb-ke niye. Haan? Taader-e shawmorthok ei Chhatro League chhilo. Mowney hawy Mahbabul Shaheb Haque mowney hawy shei dawler-e chhilo bodhawy...
Not the Moscovite Student Union. The JASOD one led by Rawbab Shajahan Shirajer. But contradiction started after freedom already. There was also Mujib's Student League first. After scientific socialism was introduced, two of four of those leaders formed JASOD with Mr. Jalil, he mostly belonged to that group...
Interviewer: Aapni ki bollen teattor shaal...
Interviewer: Also what did you say about seventy three...
It's Nineteen Seventy Three, Time for Shaikh Mujib to die. Meaning a call to kill him.
Both the Proletariat Party and JASOD too. JASOD was broken off from Student Union. Because of the disagreement with the management, becoming more left-oriented...
Unishsho Teattor Shaal, Shaikh Mujiber Mawrone Kaal. Maaney finish off Shaikh Mujib. Shutorang it was a... Shuru... Tawkhon-e shuru hoye gachhey aar ki. Shudhu shawrbohara party boley kawtha nawy, onnoder moddheo, JASOD-er chhelepuleder moddhey. Aamar mowney hawy era holo chhatro league-er disgruntled elements. JASOD toiri holo Chhatro League-r-e ekta part. Tawkhonkaar establishment-er shathey dwimawt poshon kawra shuru korlo. Ebong aaro ota left-oriented, right or wrong... whatever it may be chintadhara poshon kawra shuru korlo. Haan?
Interviewer: Maaney the dissatisfaction was within that group, that same...
(AQM Mahmood: Haan)
Maaney aamader jonno jeta awnekta this is...it was a reaction to that, jawkhone teattorer januray-te takey merey fayla holo...
Interviewer: So the dissatisfaction was within that group, that same...
(AQM Mahmood: Yes)
...it was a reaction to that, when he was killed in January seventy three...
It came in the main heading. But public reaction could not be judged. Nobody belived that he jumped and died, whoever I spoke to ...
Na main heading-e aashchhey aar ki, public reaction temon kichhu bojha jaay ni. It came in main heading. Toh lokey bishshash korbey na eibhabey jay uni lafiye porey maara gechhilen oibhabey jaar shathei alaap korechhi, keu-e shetakey, oi Government-er jay treatment shay version-takey keu-e ...
What was the Government version, that he jumped...
Interviewer: Government-er version ki chhilo, lafiye porey...
Na na, Government-er version chhilo, uni...onakey shawhorey niye jawa hoyechhilo kichhu hideout dekhiye dewar jonno...haan? Ebong tawkhone tini gadi thekey lafiye porey palabar cheshta korechhen, tawkhone police guli korechhey, tawkhone maara gachhey...ei gawlpo, oboshshoi keu, jawtojoner shathey alaap korechhi keu-e bishshash kawreni.
No, no, the government version was that he was taken to the city to identify some hideouts and he tried to escape by jumping from the car, when he was shot dead, nobody I spoke to believed it though...
Interviewer: And over all, ei awnekgulo ghawtona, jeta aapnar mawtamawtey...
Interviewer: And over all, what was your opinion on all these...
Asholey onakey awnek torture korey maara hoyechhey ekhaney. Dhaka-y rokkhibahini-r campey. Maney he was...aami e-o shunechhi je he was asked to say I have committed some mistakes. Shaikh Mujib-er kachheo taakey niye jawa hoyechhilo. He was taken to...maaney, dhoriye dewa, dhawrar pawrey aami shunechhi onakey Shaikh Mujiber kachheo niye jawa hoyechhilo, ebong onakey bawla hoyechhilo khawma chawar jonne ebong uni statement dewar jonne je onar raajniti bhul chhilo. Kintu uni bolechhen na, I am the last person. Taar rajniti kichhui bhul chhilo na, shawb-e shawthik.
No he was tortured a lot before being killed at Dhaka Security Camp...he was even taken to Shaikh Mujib to confess his political mistakes and give statements about it but he refused to, he said he was right...
Interviewer: According to you, what did this do overall about people's views about Shaikh Mujib?
Interviewer: Emnitey aapnar mawtamawtey, ei je awnekgulo ghawtona ghotlo, what did this do overall about people's views about Shaikh Mujib?
Konokawthai keu tawkhono bawleni, kintu shadhinawtar nettrito taaderkay shottikar awrthey kono logical conclusion-er dikey nitey paarchhey na, ei decision awnek shawchetawn awgo loker modhdhei already develop...maney dekha dichchhey. Seventy four-er dikey bohu shawchetan lokei mawney korto je na, jei uddeshsho niye shadhinawta juddho kawra, shei uddeshsho maney...puropuri hochchhey na aarki fulfill hochchhey na.
Nobody said anything in public but they started sensing that the freedom was not logically progressing, by seventy four many enlightened people believed that the purpose of attaining freedom is not fulfilled.
Interviewer: Eta-r toh shwchetawn boltey aapni bolchhen kichhuta aapnar shrenir...motamuti average person, jaara awtota dhawren...
(AQM Mahmood: Na, average person...)
Naholey logical conclusion kawthatar-e kono awrtho hoye na.
Interviewer: You mean enlightened people of your class...not average person
(AQM Mahmood: No, average person...)
what do you mean by logical conclusion...
By that, I mean general progress for people, pro-people Governement policy... the basic amenities for common people... but prices kept rising through the roof uncontrollably... maybe partly beacuse of the war... hopelessness all around...
Na logical conclusion eta boltey bojachchhi, dhawro manusher awbosthar unnoti haowa, maney ekta shotti awrthey desh prawgoti-r dikey egiye jawa, haan? Ekta government-er policy matter-er deek thekey ekta pro-people policy newa... haan? Egulo aar ki... aar shadharon manusher khawa pawrar bashothaner daabitai toh main, taader-o kono obosthar unnoti nai, jinisher daam hoo hoo korey berey jachchhey... uncontrolled obostha... etao juddher devastation-er kichhu karone hawyto taar moddheo achhey, shawbkichhu miliyei ekta khub asha... maney... asha jagatey paarey nai.
Interviewer: Aapnar byaktigawtobhabe toh you had lost your deference (?) at that time, and you already had suspicions about Awami League and all that, tai na? (AQM Mahmood: Haan haan) You certainly thought about what this party would become, tai na? Je taarpawre...
But personally you were starting to get disillusioned about Awami League, right?
Haan ektar pawrey ekta ghawtona taarpawrey mowney kori je thik achhey, aamra gachh lagiyechhi. Amra gachh lagiye to aar aam khabar chinta koretey parchhi na, jaara korechhey sheta bokami korechhey. Maaney amra gachh lagiye aam khabar chinta jodi kori, taholey ahammawker shwargei bash korbo. We have fought under the leadership of Awami League so we are getting this result. Amrar bichi lagiye keu jodi mowney kawrey aami aam khabo gachher, shayta to kawkhonoi... it is only his fault. If he expects I will get the sweet mango out of this amra gachher chara, ta toh hotey paarey na. Toh awnekei sheta bolto je aamra lagiyechhi amra gachh, aam pabo koththekey...
Yes one disappointment after another... so we thought we have planted hogplum... that is the Awami League leadership, it is unfair to expect a crop of sweet mango...
Interviewer: Maaney they didn't consider... agein bojha uchit chhilo... maaney people of the leftist party... maaney ei kawthata shunini... amra gachh... eta ki procholito Bangla phrase?
Interviewer: So you should have been forewarned... this hogplum-mango, is this a popular Bangla phrase?
Bachik... Haan awnekey e dhawroner kawtha bolechhey shay shawmoy... maney ei leadership-e er cheye beshi we can not expect.
Yes, people used to say we can not expect any better.
Interviewer: What were other popular one-liners about Shaikh Mujib?
Interviewer: Aar ki dhawroner kawtha bawla hoto... maney jemone... ekek shawmoye jay thakey na... dhawren khub popular phrase thakey... khub popular... maney... dhawren... what was the... maney... ek kawthay jodi keu bawley... ki bolto tawkhone je... ei toh hawbey, ba aapnar shawngay Shaikh Mujib-er awnek jog chhilo, ami jaani na ogula illustrative case (?) chhilo na general feedback...
Jemon tomar shadharawn lokei bohu slogan likhechhay, jemon seventy three-r electioneo likhechhey, je 'Kawmbolkata Mujib Coat, aar dibo na noukay bhote'. Kawmbolekata maaney, relief-er kawmbole eshechhay bohut, oguli appropriate korecchey Awami League-r lokera. Bujechho? Toh ei dhawroner slogan toh oi karonei jawnmo diyechhay... jawnmo hoyechhay... maaney Kawmbolkata Mujib Coat. Mujib Coat toh shawbai gaye dito. je bolchhey Kawmbolkata Mujib Coat, aar dibo na noukay bhote'. Toh ei dhawroner rastatey... Dhakar rastay rastay bibhinno slogan ei bhabey lekha hoyechhay. Sheta or birodhi party-ra awboshshoi likhechhay...
There was 'From blankets is made Mujib Coat, for boat symbol, no more vote'. It was about the relief blanket scam of Awami League. They all used to wear Mujib Coat. So many more slogans were there... from the opposition of course...
Interviewer: By opposition you mean mostly JASOD...
Interviewer: Maaney birodhi party... main opposition chhilo JASOD...
Haan JASOD chhilo, mainly. JASOD, NAB erai chhilo. Tawkhone to Jamat- Tamat ashey nai. Muslim League era toh ashey nai.
JASOD, NAB etc. Jamat, Muslim league etc. were not there yet...
Interviewer: That day, you were at the field (?)...
Interviewer: That day, you were at the field (?)...
Haan, desh je shadhin hoye galo... haan we were... oidin... radio-te shuntay pachchhilam. Ami toh okhaney chhilam... Toh aami aamar ek bondhu chhilo... tawkhone Captain Mustafa Kamal. Oi bikelta aami taar shathei katiyechhilam. Manolagaon (?) headquarter-ey. Tah aamra radio-te, Dhaka shawhorer ei je tomar... surrender ceremony... etar motamuti bhabey ekta running commentary-r mawtoi khawbore pachchhilam jay kawkhone surrender hawbey, Indian radio thekey baar baar bolchhilo jay awtotaar shawmoy hawbey. Ta aamra oi ekta oitai aamra shunchhilam jawkhone ultimately surrender holo... tawkhone aamra khub ulloshito holam, anondito hola. Aami jawar pawthey aami ek jayagay, jaar okhaney headquartery chhilam, kawmola tawmola awnek kine niye, ja pocket-ey poisha toisha chhilo, toh aamar patient rugi tugider jawnno niye giye distribute korlam. Jay erawkome desh shadhin hoye gachhey, edhawroner ekta feeling oboshshoi chhilo.
Yes, that day when independence came, I was at my friend's place. With Captain Mustafa Kamal at Manolagaon Headquarters all evening. We could hear the running commentary about the surrender happening at Dhaka, especially from Indian Radio, they were repeatedly announcing the time for surrender. So after that we were ecstatic. So we bought oranges with whatever money we had to meet the patients in the hospital and after distribution, we told them that we are free. So that was the feeling.
Interviewer: The hospital continued?
Interviewer: Aar hashpataler kaaj... continuity chhilo tawkhone...
Na na. Er pawrey toh aaro mashkhanek cholchhilo. After liberation-er pawreo, mashkhanek cholchhilo. Er moddhey aami Dhakay awnekbaar ashchhi. Chittagong-e ekbar gechhi, Dhaka-y ekbar ashchhi.
No no. Only a month or so. I went back and forth between Chittagong and Dhaka.
Interviewer: Okhaney keno? Hashpataler kaajey?
Interviewer: Why there? For the hospital?
Na hashpataler kaajey na. Emni Dhaka-y ashchhi Dhakar... Shadhin desher rajdhani... nijer desher jaygay... dharshakhetro(?)... Abar dudin Chittagong gechhilam oi... Jafferbhai-er shathey gelam, taarpawrey chhilo aaro ekjon... ekhon uni maney... Captain Mahboob, nirbhawr korechhilen, pawrobortitey uni killing-er shawmoy maara gelen. Zia Rahman mara jabar pawrey jay kawjone army officer recruit holen, taar moddhey unio ekjone chhilen. (Interviewer: Political... ) Haan O hishabey, na na o hishabey tawkhone aamra shathey gelam Chittagong. Chittagong-e jaabar jeta ye. Ekshathey gelam aabar pherot aashlam. Taarpawrey aamio Dhakay ashlam. Diye aabar pherot gelam. taarpawr aamakaey jawkhone hospital gutiye tutiye shawbkichhu arrange korey shesh holotawkhone ekbarey choley aashlam Dhakay.
No not for that. Just to be in the capital of our newly independent country... Chittagong I went with Jafferbhai and Captain Mehboob, who was killed later... he was one of the recruits after Zia Rahman... then we came back from Chittagong, then to Dhaka, then back, then wrapped up the hospital to be back to Dhaka finally.
Interviewer: Shekhaney bodh hawy aapnar shathey ekjoner kawtha hoyechhilo je aapni..
Interviewer: There you perhaps spoke with somebody...
If Pakistan didn't happen, we muslims could not have had upward mobility. If we remained with India, the Hindu bourgoisie would have remained on top. We were weaker at that time. Similarly, after seventy one, the moneyed class went up, but what change was there for the masses?
Ota jodi aamra boli jodi pakistan na hoto je Bangali musalman-ra etota uthtey paarto na. Tawkhone chhilo Bangali musalmaner prosno. Aamra bharatbawrshay eki shathey thaktam, taholey hawyto...
(Interviewer: shawb je musalman)
tawkhone chhilo musalman-er prawsno haan, musalman-ra aamra eto uporey uthtey paartam na. Hindu burjoader ba taader prawbhaber kareoney aamra uporey uththey paartaam na. We were weaker at that time. Thik emon-e, seventy one-er pawreo taai holo. Bangali moddhobitto uchchomoddhobitto toh aaro uporey uthechhey, uchchobitto-ra aaro awnek uporey uthechhey. Kintu what about the large masses, tader ki hoyesay? Ki poribawrton hoyesay?
Interviewer: Toh aapni mowney jawren na je taader kichu poriborton hoyechhey...
So you don't think that their situation has changed much...
Whoever said that to me said it in a postive note.
Interviewer: Jini aamakey bolechhilen na oita? Uni kintu ota positive hishabey bolechhilen.
Haan positive deek toh oboshshoi...
Yes, positive sides were there for sure...
Interviewer: Na aapnar ki mawt? Honestly je..
(AQM Mahmood: Konta?)
This is not..
No, beacause of the war, there was this great positive thing about our class like the ease of going abroad or affluence, which would not have been possible if we were a part of Pakistan. But how much a percent of total population are we?
Na, definitely there were a lot of positive things. Juddher shawb kichhui jay negative... Juddho na hoiley aami to ei jaygay thaktam na, aami jani. Aamar je arthik awbostha, aamar jay bairey jawar shujog shubidha... aamar mawto bohu loker... ammara Bangali jaara ekhon purbo Bangla-r ebong aamader shawngay Bangladesher jaara achhi... aamra ei shujog shubidha petam na oboshshoi. Pakistan thakley oboshshoi petam na. Eta aamra peyechhi aar ki. Aamra kawto percent loker moddhey pori. Etai holo kawtha aar ki. Aamra toh peyechhi maaney ki awnek beshi peyechhi. pakistan thakley e shujog aamra kichhui petam na. Ba aamar mawto ba aamar thekey jay better jara achhey, taader jay shujog shubidha, bairey jawar eto scope, ba nijer arthik awbostha poribawrtoner eto scope, definiyely petam na aamra.
Interviewer: Maaney byaktigawtobhabey benefitted hoyeo bolchhen jay it is not a good thing.
Interviewer: So in spite of being personally benefitted, you are saying that it is not a good thing...
na etai ekmaatro lawkkhota ba maaney asholay haowata uchit hawy ni. Etai toh shesh kawtha na. Over all, aamader desh aaro bhalo kortey paarto. Possibilities chhilo boley aami mowney kori. Je ami mowney kori aami seventy three-r pawrey jodi shottikarer mawto competent ebong committed kono government hoto, toh our situation would have been much different. Aamar...
No this was not the goal. The entire country could have done better if there were a competent and committed government.
Interviewer: After seventy one?
Interviewer: Seventy one-er pawrey?
After seventy one.
Seventy one-er pawrey.
Interviewer: Say... take rickshaw-pullers. What did they fight for? What was their reason to join the war?
Interviewer: Umm... when in one jodi rickshawwalara bujhto jay who is going to win...maaney rickshawwalara kisher jonno fight kawrey? What they told, is my question. (AQM Mahmood: Hmm) Aapni toh tawkhone chhilen, hawyto propaganda or oibhabey ekta slogan...rickshawwalara ki bhebey juddhey join korlo? Ki asha korchhilo taara?
Asha toh oboshshoi shawbai bhalor jonnoi asha korei toh juddho koresay. Tai na? Tara mowney koresay taara aamader shoshon korey aamader shawmosto shawmpotti niye jachchhey. That was true also, that was definitely true. Niye giye okhaney taar accumulation korto. Taar jaygay ekhon onnora accumulate korchhey ba hawyto ekhan thekeo pachar ekhon shawbai accumulate korey ekhaney rakhe na, eknon ekhan thekeo pachar korey awnno jaygay choley jaay. Pakistaney jaaye na. Kintu awnno jaygaye chole jaaye sheta.
Everybody hoped for a better life when they joined the war. They hoped their exploitation to end. How the wealth gained from their exploitation was being accumulated. It's being done still, and not being accumulated here or at Pakistan, but being shipped out somewhere, but it's happening still.
Interviewer: Maaney ta...
Pachar hochchhey thik-e. Shawmpawder pachar hochchhey na ekhon?
The sending off of accumulated wealth. Still happening.
Interviewer: The operation was certainly true. But the regime change, was it that they had hoped?
Interviewer: The operation was certainly true. Kintu aashlo jetar bawdoley, was it that they had hoped?
Na, aar bishesh korey seventy one-er pawrey jay thrust-ta pawrey holo, military-r je operation. Gawnohawtta jeta cholchhilo, shetao toh ekta birat factor. large scaley jay gawnohotta shuru korlo, definitely people would become... jawtota... seventy-oner-er aagey bollam na jawto loke hawyto shadhinawtar pawkkhey bawle nai, seventy one-r taader kandokaarkhana dekhe, taader-o awneker bhul dharona bhengachhay jay aar we can not stay any longer with these people. There were a lot of people jara Pakistan bhangtay chay nai. Emon loke seventy one-er aagey awnek chhilo. kawtha bujhechho. Kintu seventy one-er taader... seventy one-er crackdown-er pawrey taader kandokarkhana, activities dekhey awnekei bolechhey na maney disenchanted hoye gachhay taader proti, na, Pakistan-er shathey aar thaka jaay na. jebhabei hok, do or die, we have to get separated.
No, especially the military thrust or crackdown after seventy one. The large scale genocide turned even the previously staunch Pakistan supporters against them. People decided that they had to get separated, do or die.
Interviewer: Meaning the average voter didn't think so before...
Interviewer: Maaney average person, voting at the elections toh chintao chhilo na...
Naa. (Interviewer: Awtota toh...) Awtota toh shadhinawtar jonno vote dichchhi emon korey paarey namayni (?). Sheta hoyechhay Pakistan-er parliament-er vote. Shekhane Awami League majority-te... Awami League-ke vote diyechhey. Not that on the basis, haan, either pakistan chao ki na chao, emon toh referendum hawy ni. Taholey things would have been a little different hawyto. (Interviewer: Umm) Kintu crackdown-er pawrey jodi kono refereendum nawa hoito shottikar awrthey tahole ninety eight percent lok-e vote dito je na we want independence, amaar-o dharona.
No it was not really a vote for freedom. It was a vote for Pakistan Parliament where Awami League was a majority win. It was not a whether you want Pakistan or not vote. If such a referendum was taken after the crackdown, things would have been different.
It's obvious even if people voted with their feet by going to India or whatever..
(AQM Mahmood: Of course!)
But the interesting thing is not everybody could leave immediately... there were leftover elements...
Interviewer: Khub shabhabik. Even if they had voted with their feet. By going to India or doing whatever...
(AQM Mahmood: Of course!)
Umm... eta kintu khoob interesting byapar, ei contradiction je ashbey... shawbai toh shathey shathey jete paarbey na... sejonno bolchhilam je kichhu leftover elements theke gechhilo..
Oboshshoi, oboshshoi, bohu lok-e thekey gachhey. Shawbai gachhey emon toh kono kawtha nai. Bohu lok-e thekey gachhey. Bohu patriot-e thekey gachhey ekahney. Ebong taar ekhaneo juddho korechhey o onno sector-e... bibhinno sector-e... shamna shamni na hoke, parokkho na hoke... prottokkho na hok pawrokkho bhabe juddho korechhey, tai na? Shahajjo korecchey. Aar jodi edesher manush shahajjo na korto, toh oijonney oikhan thekey eshey shudhu aar juddho korey desh jawy kawra jeto na. Tai na? Kintu Awami nettrito awnek shawmoye emon ekta bhab dekhiyesay aamra jaara sheemanter oparey gesi tarai patriot aar sixty five million others..,holiday-te ekta article uthechhilo, 'Sixty Five Million Rajakars'. Maaney aamra jara ten million gesi taarai patriot aare sixty five million jara bondi hoye roye gasay taara shawbai Rajakar. Kintu ghawtona toh asholey taa na.
(Interviewer: Tawkhone population kawto chhilo?) Dhawro orokom-e chhilo, more or less.
Yes a lot of them stayed, and many of them were patriots, they fought, they helped, otherwise do you think it was possible to win the war from the other side of the border. But the Awami leadership often pretends that ten million people who crossed the border were patriots the rest sixty five million... there was an article in the holiday 'Sixty Five Million Rajakars'. Mmeaning those who stayed behind were not patriots. That was hardly the case.
(Interviewer: What was the population then?) yes that was it, more or less.
Interviewer: Na na sheta toh chhiloi, participation of people (AQM mahmood: Haan) taara ki korey help (?) korsay...
Interviewer: No no of course, how did they help?
It was not possible for everybody to leave the country
Shawbai jay ekta desh thekey arektatey choley jabey emon toh shawmbhawb-o nawy.
Interviewer: Haan eta toh chhiloi. Umm...
Interviewer: Surely. Umm...
Kintu awneker moddhey ei drishtibhongita chhilo, taara jara pherot ashchhey, bhabta erom chhilo je aamrai ekmatro patriot ebong aamrai desher hawrtakawrta haowar shawb dabidar, kintu...
But a lot of people thought that since we came back from beyond the borders... we are the patriots and the dederving to the power...
Interviewer: What do you think?
Interviewer: Aapnar experience-y, aapnar kawthay, awneker kawtha shunay eta toh bojha jaay je whether... whether those reins on these feet... tai na? (AQM Mahmood: Haan) Maaney aapnar ki mowney hawy ei byaparey?
Maaney reins on his feet maaney ki? Shubidhabaader...? (Interviewer: Maaney...)
Aaro hawyto nicher dikey, awbosthar dikey nemey gachhey. Kintu kichhu middle class toh uporer dikey uthechhey awboshshoi. Ei uporey uthata eto shawhoj hoto na Pakistanider competition thakle, eto Indian league Findian league aamder toh tawkhone chhilo na, aamra eto druto kaalo takao petam na...
What are you referring to? Opprtunism?s (Interviewer: Meaning...)
Some people went down economically but a lot of people like us went up... It won't have been possible if Pakistan was there... we neither had the Indian connection, nor black money...
Interviewer: Onnora peto...
(AQM Mahmood: Onnora paito sheta)
Ekjon aamakey...maaney aapnar ki mawt ei byaparey? Is it...Did it make a difference?
Interviewer: Some people had... Did it make a difference?
It doesn't make much of a difference. Doesn't make much of a difference. Kono kono khetre kono shawmoy hawyto mowney hotey paarey kintu asholey it doesn't make much of a difference.
(Off-screen young male voice: Maaney Bangladeshei khay aar purbo Pakistenei khay)
khaoar jodi...haan...jodi awttacharta... karo awttachar-e kawm mowney hawbey na... haan ekta badi aamakey diley... bangali badi diley aar punjabi badi diley, jodi baarir aaghat jodu ek-e..strength-ta hawy... amar karo kichhu kawm lagbey na konotatey... kawm lagar kawtha na.
Some cases it does but mostly it doesn't make a difference
(Off-screen young male voice: gets hit in Bangladesh or East pakistan)
Yes Panjabi or Bengali, if hits with the same force... it would hurt the same...
Interviewer: Ektai... maaney bibhinno loker kawthai synthesize korey aapnakey bolchhi aar ki suppose... otherwise aamar nijer kono chinta etey nai egula...ekta one person said jay ektai benefit jay tawkhone jehetu....
Interviewer: Synthesizing all that I have heard till now... one benefit was there....
But the trickle down effect might be happening now... The leadership happens by filtering the stringest from the stronger in the party... if they take good decisions... the masses have it good... if bad... bad... but nothing is final...history goes on... This is not the end of the world.
Tawbey oi trickle-down effect jetar kawtha bolchho, sheta hawyto aamra pachchhi awboshshoi... Jaara advanced element, taader-ke niyei toh party gothito hawy, ebong tarcheyeo, shawbcheye advanced taara leadership-e thakey, shei party-r leadership jodi byartho hawy kono karoney, toh jawnogawn suffer kawrey (Interviewer: Party-r leadership-er jonno suffer kawrey) haan jawnogone suffer kawrey, taader correct decision niley jawnogone benefitted hawy. Taarpawr ei niyei toh itihas themey thakey na. Byartho holeo toh abar notun korey shuru hawy. Shawmoyer byapar. Matter of time. Etai toh shesh na. This is not the end of the world.
AQM Mahmood was a university professor and his son as my classmate at Oberlin. Pasha wasn't supposed to be in the frame, but he walked in and started giving his opinion "are things better", etc. This is when his father was also liveliest. "What I am trying to say is..."
But my project so far doesn't give me any positive notes from any of the people I spoke to... this is kind of... that's why I am struggling for he positive...
Interviewer: Haan shetai. Byparta hochchhey aami jei shawmoy project-ta korchhi na, particular shawmaoyer moddhey
(AQM mahmood: particular shawmoyer moddhey haan)
aamar problem hochchhey jay, I am watching it from this without a positive overall message.
(AQM Mahmood: Haan?)
Ami eijonnoi kintu khabblachchhi...ekta kichhu jodi positive na pai taholey aami
(AQM Mahmood: Haan ki niye...)
Don't be so disheartened. Positive notes were certainly there.
Na na positive oboshshoi chhilo. Eto aamar mowney hawy ashahawto hawbar kono karon nei.
Interviewer: Aapnar mawto loke aamar mawto loke-r beshi asha kawrey. Aapnar chhilo kina jaani na...because you saw things even more clearly...
People like you or me are optimists... don't know if you agree... because you saw things even more clearly...
Aami hawyto aaro better future asha korechhilam in the...as a whole of the poeple...tai na? Tobuo eto... (Off-screen young male voice: Hawyto jehetu aapnar future awto kharap na...) Haan (Off-screen young male voice: Shehetu hawyto aapney awtota ashahawto hawn nai...) Hawyto hoini tao hoitey paarey. (Off-screen young male voice: Kaaron aamrai toh...) Shadharawn manush-ra jemon bawley, British aamoley bhalo chhilam. Pakistaner aamoley aaro bhalo chhilam. Hawyto taara beshi bolbey. Aami toh bhaloi aachhi. Tawkhon-o motamuti ja chhilam, taar cheye hawyto beshi bhalo achhi ekhon.
I expected a much better future... like everybody does... right... but still
(Off-screen young male voice: May be because your future was not that bad...)
(Off-screen young male voice: That is why you were not so crestfallen...)
But it could have been
(Off-screen young male voice: Because we are..)
As common people say, we were better under the British or the Pakistanis. I am better now, than before.
Interviewer: It is more for government employees... at least the ones I interviewed... because the government job field was not so competitive
(AQM Mahmood: Yes)
they say, they got the value of their work...
(Off-screen young male voice: because bribing were less...)
Yes it was there in British time, but you are saying the country has not improved, even though your condition has..
Interviewer: Shawrkari karmocharigo moddhey eta khub beshi...maaney aami jaader interview korechhi, shawrkari kawrmochari kintu keu eta bawley na...jehetu shawrkari kawrmochari-r level-ey oi competition issue chhilo na awtota (AQM Mahmood: Hoon) Tawkhon shay bawley, aami kaaj korey aamar kaajer mullo paichhilam... (Off-screen young male voice: karon ghush chhilo kawm awtota...) Ebong British aamoleo chhilo, taader moddhey frustration-ta beshi paisi kintu aapner...you are toh thinking desh has not been improved, aapnar awtota khoti hoini...
Aamar byaktigawtobhabey khoti kichhu hawy ni (Interviewer: hawyto promoted holeo aapni konodin jeten na pakistan-ey) Kintu jaara government-er..
Aamar khoti hawy ni bawrong labh hoyechhay awnek. Aamar toh byaktigawto bhabey khoti hawy ni, bawrong bangladesh haowate awnek beshi labh hoyechhay. Je position-e aami gechhi, jay position-e, aamar pawkkhey, aamar mawto ba aamar mawto awneker pawkkhey ei position-e jawa but ei jaygay jay exposure haowar shawmbhabona chhilo na.
I had no personal loss...
(Interviewer: maybe you would not have gone to Pakistan even if you were promoted)
But the government...
The kind of exposure, position I got because of the formation of Bangladesh, I won't have got it otherwise...
Interviewer: It was a far bigger country...(AQM Mahmood: Haan...) (Off-screen young male voice: Hoito na?)
Interviewer: It was a far bigger country...
(AQM Mahmood: Yes...)
(Off-screen young male voice: No?)
Oboshshoi hoito na. Kemne hoito? Ei jay jeibhabe aami Vienna-y gelam, jeibhabey aami Iran-e gelam, phawt korey jetey paartam? Eto shawhoj chhilo na. Islamabad giye dawrkhasto collect korey shekhaney dawrkasto jawma diye selection hoye aami jetey paartam Iraney? Kawkhonoi hoto na. Taholey aamar interview korto Islamabad-e. Jekhane interview korlo Dhaka-y. Jekhaney institute-e aami chakri pelam, shekhaney interview nilo. Aamar pawkkhey ki eto shawhoje chhilo. Ekhon Dhakar ekta chheler pawkkhey jawto shawhoje, pawt koira ekta Baufal Bougunar ekta chheler pawkkhey ki eto shawhoje hawbey? (Interviewer: Aamra ki eto...) Tumi SAT porchho, TOEFEL dichchho, ekta Baufal Bougunar chhele ki pawt korey sheta porey America-y jetey paarbey?
Of course not! So easily I went to Vienna, Iran. We had to go to Islamabad to fill up, submit form, to get interviewed. Now it's in Dhaka, the same institute I got the job in . For example, is it as easy for a boy in Baufal Bouguna to write SAT, TOEFL and go to America as a Dhaka boy like you?
Interviewer: Ebong think about this. Jodi seventy one-y Bangladesh na hoto taholey Dhaka would be ekhon Barishal ja achhey. Overall Pakistan (AQM Mahmood: Haan ) ja. Overall shawb choley jaay Karachi-te. Aar jara juba taara atkaiya jaay. (AQM mahmood: Haan atkaiya jaay) Aamra hotam mafawshshawler chhele for Pakistan.
Interviewer: And think about this. If seventy one didn't happen... Dhaka would have been to Karachi, what Barishal is to Dhaka today... stuck... considered a mofussil
Haan exactly. Second grade. Aamra drishtibhongir deek thekeo taara second grade-r boley mowney korto. Ebong taader...
Yes exactly. Second grade. We were considered second grade...
Interviewer: jemon aamra...
Interviewer: Like us...
The situation would be a bit different here. Say kids from Boduga-Pabna won't be so looked down upon here, as we were then...
Tobu ekhaney dhawro, the situation would be a little different. Different maaney ki, tawkhone Dhaka-r, ekta boguda ba potuakhali-r chheley jodi Dhaka-y ashey, awtota look down kawra hawbey na, kintu aamder shebhabey look down kawra hoto.
Teenage son of AQM Mahmood: Aami kintu aapnar ahwngay ekmawt mool bishoye kintu ektu parthokko-ta hochchhey ki Dhaka-y tawkhono ekta class chhilo jaara kintu Pakistan-er shawngay shei pawrjaye compete kortey paarto ebong Dhaka thekeo...Dhaka University-r awbostha eto kharap chhilo na jay jawa jeto na ekhan thekey chherey Oxford Cambridge-y jeto na shei shawmoye. tai na?
Teenage son of AQM Mahmood: I agree overall but disagree a bit, Dhaka University could compete with pakistan even then. It was good enough to send students to Oxford-Cambridge.
Is was not as easy as now.
(Son: Can't go from Bawrguna to America, because there is no such school. But from Dhaka you could, even then, that is my point.)
Yes, basically what I'm saying is, compared to (West) Pakistan, we were the mofussil.
Kintu ekhon, jawata jawto shahoje, awto shawhoje chhilo na. (Son: Awto shawhoje toh chhilo na) Ei aar ki. (Son: Kintu Bawrguna theke ekhon America-te directly jawa ektu difficult. Kintu aami bolte chaichhi Bawrgunay temon school nai. Dhaka-y tawkhon ekta chhilo, jaara jete paarto.) Haan motamutibhabe ei dhawroner ekta shay maaney similarity tendency aar ki, aamra Pakistan-er tulonay mawfoshshawl-e chhilam.
Son: I am saying honestly, may be I am totally wrong. aami kintu hawyto kichhui jaani na hawyto haan? Aami chintabhabna korey dekhchhi jay jodi shadhinawta hoito, aamar labh hoyechhey keno byaktigawtobhabey, hawyto hoisay, hawyto hawy nai. Aami aamar kawtha... (Interviewr: Tomar kawtha kintu nawy) Kaaron ki...
Son: I am saying honestly, may be I am totally wrong... I think about if I have gained by the liberation or lost
(Interviewer: But your case is not the point)
...I can't decide
Interviewer: But my case was not the same... as my father said, if liberation didn't happen, he would have continued working and me studying in Karachi
(Son: I think I could have scored a goal in an empty ground)
but my classmates could not have done that...their fathers would not have got those Karachi postings...
Interviewer: Tomar hawyto hawyni aamar hawyni, jemon abbar je opinion chhilo...aapnakey jawkhone bollam...je basic, jodi shadhinota na hoto aapni Pakistan-ei thekey jetern karon oikhaney holo giye bhalo chakrigulo...ebong ultimately aami Karachi-te aamar schooley portaam (Son: Aamar dharona aami khali mathey goal ditey paartam) haan...aamar classmate-gulo okhaney jetey paarto na, kintu jay classmate gulo chhilo, shegulor Karachi-tay posting konodin hoto na...
Son: Aami shetai boltey chachchhi, amaar mowney hawy kono kono khetrey competition-ta ek awrthey ektu bedey gachhey, bujhchhen? It's good. Aami boltay chachchhi na sheta kharap. It's good, but sheta niye tawrko hoitey paarey manusher. Aar seventy one shawmmondhey aami ki aamar awkaroney bawktobbo rakhchhi naki (Interviewer: na na) achchha, sheta hochchhey ki jay dhawren keu jodi bawley jay Bangladesh haowata asholey bhul hoyechhay ki hawy nai...taar moddhey awnek point of view, eta niye tawrko hoitey paarey...Haan? Kintu shadhinawta juddher jogdaan was not, it was not a political issue, it was a moral issue, a religious issue (AQM Mahmood: Hmm) Amar bhai-ke mere felle, amar abba-ke mere felley, tawkhone it's no more a political issue. Tawkhone as a Muslim, as any human being, manusher survival-er jonno, nyay-er jonno tawkhone juddho kortey...
Son: I think the competition has actually increased in some places, and it's good... And if I may say about seventy one... wait am I speaking unnecessarily in this interview
(Interviewer: No, no, it's fine).
Ok, so what I am trying to say, many arguments may happen, was creation of Bangladesh a accident, you could have an economic debate. But you know 1971 was not just a political issue but a moral, religious issue. If my father and brother are killed, I have to fight for survival and justice... As a Muslim, as any human being, I have to fight back. Then it became about survival.
Exactly moral issue-ta chhilo birat, tumi jeta bolchhiley jay, aapni...what tempted you to join, ami India jawar pecchoneo, sheta kaaj korecchilo, ei ekta critical time-y aamader jaati-r jibawney ekta krantilawgno jachchhey, aamader oporey erom ekta aaghat ashchhey, erawkome awttachar kortasey, ekhaney aamar mawtey ei young chhelera jodi boshey thaki taholey who will defend? If i am here, aamara cheye jaara bawyeshko taader toh aasha kortey paari na , jaara bachcha taaderkay aasha kortey paari na. I am at the exact, at the peak of that youth jawkhone I should join and do something about it.
Exactly, the moral issue was there and that answers your question about why I joined. I was the right age... the young... I couldn't expect either the younger or the older... I had to step up and join the war...
Son: Ora toh politician-der maarey nai, ora gramey giye shadharon manush, ora
(AQM Mahmood: Haan)
ekta pura jaatikey akkhorik awrthey nidhawn korey cheshta korsay, tai na? Je karoney Germany-r biruddhey Soviet Union jay juddho korlo kibhabey, it was not a fighting between communism and fascism maaney... bujhchhen... maaney...
(Interviewer: Haan I know.)
To a certain degree it was, but manush juddho kawrey kawkhone, manush dekhlo je achcha
(AQM Mahmood: Desperate)
desperate...maney aar toh kichhu nei...
(AQM Mahmood: Maaney dewaley peeth thekey jaayejawkhone..Maney puro jaati jawkhone, crackdown-er pawre pawrei, whole nation, maushawtar deek thekei stood against Pakistan, ei jonnoi hawyto nawmashey eto shawhoje hoyechhay...)
Orao toh shay rawkome, maaney aamader-ke ekdom, ora eijonney bolchhey Bangladesh-ke ekdom, oder awbodaan-ta awnek beshi, hawyto group korey taarey aanar jonno, hawyto ultimately hoto, ebong sheta niye tawrko hotey paarey aami boltey chaichhi na je Bangladesh-er proti sheta awnnay. But aami boltey paari keu jodi bawley, je aamader awbostha asholei kharap hoye royechhey, taholey taar ekta kawtha shuntay hawbey aamar. Maaney...kintu aabar onnodikey...indicator-er deek thekey ekhon abar manush flood-ey kawm mawrey, ekhon shikkha dikkhar haar ektu bere gase, gramer manush awnaharey awrdhaharey awpekkhakrito kawm mawrey...if...ogulokey jodi indicator dhawra hawy, taholey kintu mass level-eo kichhu kichhu unnoti hoyesay.
Son: They didn't kill the politicians. They killed everyone, all set to oblitearte a whole race. It is why Soviet Union fought Germany, it was not a fighting between communism and fascism...
(Interviewer: Yes I know.)
To a certain degree it was, but was desperation mostly... all that aggravation by them actually brought the nation together... it was not just a country falling apart... But if you see the indicators... lesser people die from flood... people are more educated... less deaths from hunger... so there has been some progress.
Oboshshoi. Haan eta...eta...Pakistan hishabey thakleo hoto kina sheta bawla mushkil (Son: Haan eta bawla jaay na) bawla jaay na. Eita ponchish bawchhore shawmoye toh ekta, tawkhon toh aamra Pakistan-e maatro chobbish bawchhore gachhey, taarpareo toh aaro ponchish bawchhore chobbish bawchhore jachchhey...
Yes. We were with Pakistan for twenty six years then. Twenty six more have passed now... who knows what could have happened if we stayed...
Son: And arguably, if we went there...
Son: Taar pawrey jodi dhawren aamra yetey jetam, eta niye aami boltey chachchhi je eta niye tawrko hotey paarey...
But if we were still with Pakistan... what would have happened by now... ninety four... is anybody's guess
Na asholey aamra jodi ekhono joint Pakistan-er awngsho thaktam, taholey aamader aajke, ei ninety four-e ki awbostha danratosheta hypothetical prawsno...kintu asholey ki danrato shetao toh aami jaani na.
Interviewer: And many Pakistani we spoke to..
Interviewer: Ebong awnek pakistani-r shathey aamar kawtha...