Mumbai Music: Chandrakant Ramjibhai Mewada
Director: Surabhi Sharma; Cinematographer: Ajay Noronha
Duration: 01:26:15; Aspect Ratio: 1.778:1; Hue: 27.768; Saturation: 0.088; Lightness: 0.317; Volume: 0.100; Cuts per Minute: 1.078; Words per Minute: 205.967
Summary: The late Chandu Ramjibhai ran the Azad Avanadh Vadyalay on Bhaskarbuwa Bakhle Path founded by his father just before Independence. Here he speaks about the array of famous musicians he heard in concerts, in his own shop in informal sessions, and in the kothas on Foras Road where he would go to deliver tablas. He reveals fascinating details about the circuits of Hindustani music in the mid-20th century, connecting the kotha to the film industry and the singers to the musical economy of Girgaum and beyond.
CR: Ab syahi lagane se sound farak ho jayega abhi. Kya
( There will be difference in the sound after I put the ink.)
SS: Aapke parivar mein kitni der se.. ( For how long has your family...)
CR: Grandfather se, aur hum aise dekhe toh humare caste Rajput hai. Woh ladhai hoti tabhi woh dhaal mangta tha na toh hum log dhaal banate the woh time pe. Dhaal mein se phir baad mein sab aisa kuch ulta sulta hua. Ladhai mein hote the sab. Phir kya amuk jan ne apna yeh instrument ka le liya. Apni jaati chupane ke liye. Pehle woh Moghul lok ka bhaut taklif tha woh time pe. Woh bolna nahi chahiye apne ko, galat hai bolna. Phir baad mein yeh sab alag alag ho gaye. Is mein story puri hai, iske andar ( inaudible) woh register hai.
( Since my grandfather, we are actually from Rajput caste . When the war happened they needed shields we would make those at that time. Then things went haphazard. Everyone was in the war. Then some people took this up making instruments to hide their caste. The Moghul's created a lot of toruble at that time. We shoudln't say that it's wrong to say that. After that everyone got separated. The whole story is in here... (in audible) that's a register.
CR: Hai mul Rajasthan se hum log Kutch mein aaya Kutch se idhar aaye aur amuk jan hai na Rajasthan se Banaras woh side Kashmir tak gaye aur neeche bhi gaye kya... phir wahan sthayi ho gaye sab log aur apna apna parivar sab chalu kar diya oonlog ne.
(We are originally from Rajasthan from Kutch and from Kutch we came here and some people from Rajasthan they went to Benaras upto Kashmir and some went down south... then everyone settled there and started their families.)
Is mein jitne mehnat hai utna paisa nahi milta hai. Par kya apna seva hai yeh Sangeet ka seva dusra kuch nahi. Abhi aaj kal ke ladke usko education hai tum tumahre hisaab se raho hum humare hisaab se rahenge. Nahi hona chahiye hai jaroori hai abhi yeh jo pakad ke bethega toh nahi chalega woh. Jara bhi nahi chalega. Jiske paas hai uske paas hai. Jiske paas nahi hai toh nahi hai kya karenge aur hum log kisi ke paas bol nahi sakte.
( There's a lot of hard work and very little money in this work. But this is our service. Service for music nothing else. These days the kids have education. They can live their life as per their terms and we will live ours. They have to be educated it's important they can't do this it won't work. Won't work at all. Only the one's who have it in them can. The one's who don't have it can't do anything and we cannot tell anyone.)
CR: Dekho farak pad gaya sound ke andar?
( Is there a difference in the sound?)
CR: hum log, main yeh line mein bachpan se hoon. Pita ke time se is liye muhje ho gaya baki aaj kal ke ladke. Unko kaam aata hai dono ladke ko mere. Abhi phone tha uska.
( We, I am in this since my childhood. From my father's time and so I know it but the younger generation. Both my son's know the work. He called sometime back.)
Har ek prakar ke kaam ke andar alag alag patthar rehte hai. Yeh saaf karne ke liye aur phir yeh dabane ke liye, kya. Ek hi patthar se kaam nahi chalta woh... alag alag sab kaam ke liye. Ek Sangeet yeh sadhna hai, Saraswati ki isko hum yeh nahi kar sakte. Chalta hai chalo. Aur Bhagwan de deta hai Thakurji. Yeh humari izzat ki roti hai.
(For each task there are different stones. This one is for cleaning and this one is to put pressure. It doesn't work with just one stone.. different different for all tasks. This is a kind of worship for music or Saraswati we cannot stop it. We have to continue it and God gives Thakurji. This is income earned with dignity.
Yeh bakre ka chamda hai. Bakara kata hua maraa hua us mein se hum log awaaz nikalte hai. Bahut takleef hoti hai. Yeh jo saai hai na woh lokhand yeh aata hai na patthar aate hai. Yeh lokhand ke patthar nahi jo jameen se nikalte hai woh. Uska powder banake ke kut kut ke usmein se yeh saai banti hai.
(This is goat skin. A goat that has been butchered we make music from that. It troubles us. This ink is made from iron stones. Not these iron stones the one's that are mined from the ground. They pound and make it into a powder and make this ink out of it.)
CW: Yeh humein ladies log sab karte hai. Pura humara jo Samaj rehta hai ne sab ladies log yeh kaam karte hai. ( All the ladies do this work. All the ladies from our community do this work.)
SS: Toh aapko sab pata hai? ( So you know it all?)
RW: Ha, ha, ha ( Yes, yes, yes)
CR: Etla aapko batao chalo andar karke ( We can take you inside)
CW: Pura humare Samaj mein humara jo Samaj hai na us mein sab jo yeh karte hai na woh sab lagate hai. Abhi maine bataya na ( Our whole community, everyone in the community everyone does this. What I just told you)
CW: Mere dono bete ko bhi aate hai. ( Both my sons know how to do it.)
CR: Woh bhi kaam karte hai, nahi karte hai woh log. Abhi jab tak main hoon tab tak
karunga phir baad mein tum sambhaal lena. Dekho kitna farak pad gaya sound ke andar. Oh mere andar kaam ke andar uska 60% uska kaam hai uske andar aur hum log karte hai.
(Even they do the work, they do it. I'll do till the time I'm there later they have to handle it. See the difference in the sound. In my work 60% is her work and we do it.
Jo lavo moto thai gayo ainya. Bau chugni aavi gayi saai
CW: Chaar- paanch ghanta lag jaata hai pura banane mein. ( It takes 4-5 hours to make the whole thing)
CW: Baarish mein bahut takleef rehta hai. Bareesh mein sukh... woh powder jo lagate hain woh sukhti nahi hai jaldi. Dhoop mein accha rahta hai. ( During the rains it's very tough.. in the rains... the powder that we put doesn't dry quickly. When it's sunny it's nice.)
SS: Order kis hisaab se aata hai? ( How do you get orders?)
CW: Ha, ha ( Yes, yes)
SS: Pure saal aata rehta hai ke? ( Do you get them all year round?)
CW: ha, ha ( yes, yes)
SS: Kabhi bhi aa sakta hai? ( It can come anytime)
CW: Kabhi aa sakta hai. Ganpati mein bahut rehta hai kaam. Ganpati mein. ( Anytime... During Ganesh festival there's a lot of work. During Ganesh Festival)
CR: Ja aama saai nahko.. (inaudible)... Saai, saai aa ma joyi che. Tuningach kari nakho jara ( Put some ink in this... Ink ink in this.. I need it... I'll tune it a bit)
CW: Dekho yeh pura haath mein. Pura haath kaala ho jaata hai kaam karte karte. Yeh bhi ho jaata yeh bhi, lekin chala jaata hai aisa rehta nahi hai.
( See my hands. It becomes black while working. This one also gets all black but it goes away it doesn't stay.)
CW: Laau paani. Dekho chala gaya. ( Pass the water. See it has gone)
CR: Yeh saai lagane mein akkha din jaata hai pura. (It takes one whole day to put the ink)
CR: Ek time yeh kala ko bahut radhnya (not clear) milta tha abhi nahi hai. ( At one point this art had a lot of respect now it's not the same.)
CR:Uski kadar hoti thi kala ko abhi nahi milti hai. Abhi sab commercial ho gaya pura.
( People appreciated this art now it's not. Now everything is commercial)
SS: Par jo aapke paas pehle aate the tabla banane ke liye woh toh abhi bhi aate honge
( But the one's who came to you to make tabla they must be still coming)
CR: Aate hain nahi aisa nahi aate hai jaroor aate hai. Usko iske siva unko toh kaam
chalta bhi nahi hai. Magar jo abhi chal raha hai way woh hisaab se nahi hai. Pehle kuch nahi toh bhi sab aate the abhi nahi hai.
( Sure they come not that they don't. They don't like it anywhere else. But the way things are now it's not the same. Earlier people would come even if they didn't have any work)
CW: Pehle lekin hai na kya hai chamda hi rahta tha abhi plastic bhi aa gaya hai. Plastic ka bhi aa gaya hai na. Sirf chamda hi rehta tha paila. ( Earlier it was only leather now there's plastic. Plastic is also available now. Only leather was available earlier.)
CR: Shanta Prasad, Kishan Maharaj sab apne hi vaparte the woh time pe. Abhi woh rahe nahi gujar gaye. Allahuddin Khan Saab bhi aate the. (not clear) ke pitaji aur Ravi Shankar ke sassur... thi kala thi woh time pe. Woh time relation bhi accha tha abhi bhi hai nahi aisa nahi magar ab kisko time nahi hai abhi. Zakir bhai aate chalu hi Chandrubhai, hi, hello kiya alright. Main bhi aisa hi karta hoon hi, hello... theek alright. Jai Shri Krishna. Unko bhi time nahi hai na mereko bhi time nahi hai.
(Shanta Prasad, Kishan Maharaj, they would use our tabla's in those days. Now they are no more they passed away. Allahuddin Khan Saab would come. ( Not clear) his father and Ravi Shankar's father in law... there was art at that time. Back then the relations were good even now it is good but now no one has time. Zakir bhai comes and says Hi Chandubhai says hi, hello... alright. Even I say hi, hello.. okay alright. Jai Shri Krishna. He doesn't have the time nor do I have the time.)
Ek time maine sheesham ka baya banake Rasik Sangam mein Rang Bhavan mein rakha tha maine demonstration ke andar aur dus din ka function tha woh time pe. kya. Sab log hairan pad gaye, Chandubhai yeh kya kar diya aapne. Kya.
Nahi joye pankho aine.
( Once I made a bayan from Sheesham (type of wood) it was kept at Rasik Sangam Rang Bhavan for a demonstration and it was a 10 day function at that time. Everyone was shocked, Chandubhai what have you done. )
He doesn't want the fan.
CR: yeh bajega? Dekho nahi kyun bajega? Bajega jaroor bajega. Zakir bahi bole dhila ho gaya toh? Hoega hi nahi peeche se apna yeh Birju Maharaj, woh Gopi Kishan, Sitara ekdum has rahi thi sab. Oh Chandubhai aaj kya baat hai aaj mood hai? Aaj mood mein hoon jara mood mein bole toh paan khaye magai ka Kishanbhai ne diya Kishan Maharaj ne khaya maine aur begum ne kimam lagake diya mereko.
( Will this play ? Why won't it play I asked? It will play of course it will. Zakir bhai said what if it becomes loose? It won't and Birju Maharaj and Gopi Kishan, Sitara were laughing everyone. Oh Chandubhai looks like you are in good mood today? I said yes I'm in the mood. I had a magai paan Kishanbhai gave me. Kishan Maharaj ate and begum had put kimam ( misture of tobaco & spices)
Jara idhar ho gayi mereko woh Khan saab Allarakha kursi mein baithe the. Woh Bole Zakir Chandubhai se behas mat kar. Birju Maharaj yeh hi Bayan le. Bas yeh hi baye pe baitho tum bajao aur sab baye ki tukade us ne dance mein Birju Maharaj ne lagaya. Pura dancing ke andar sab bayan ke tukade yun dabao toh naram bajaye phir taang ho jave ekdum bas ban gaya ban gaya. maja aa gayi.
( It made a little high. Allarakha Khan Saab was sitting on the chair. He said, Zakir don't argue with Chandubhai. Birju Maharaj said take this baya. You use this bayan and play it. Birju Maharaj only had baya pieces in his dance in the whole dance with baya pieces. If you press it was soft but when you striked it played really sharp. It just happened. It was fun.)
Zakir Bhai kisi ko mat samjho aap Allarakha bhai ke ladke ho main Ramjibhai ka ladka hoon. Dono sarikhe hai. Khansaab bole Zakir zidd mat karo uske saath. Usne dekha uske pita ke samne kaam kiya hai isliye aaj Bayan rakha usne jaan bhooj ke idhar.
( Zakir bhai don't think about anyone like this. You are Allarakha bhai's son I'm Ramjibhai's son. Both are same. Khan saab said Zakir don't be stubborn with him. He knew I have worked with his father that's why he kept the baya here purposely.)
CR: Nahi kuch nayi entry hona chahiye musical ke instrument ke andar aur yeh lakde ka baya kisne banaya nahi tha sab aise khaat ke andar jo Baya hai apna waisa. Dhama lakde ka aata hai woh Punjab woh aisa seedha aata hai. Woh nahi Baya yaani Baya hi. Kya awaaz aaya tha uska baap re, baap re.
( No there should be something new in the musical instruments and no one had made a wodden Bayan all the bayan's were in the frame like the baya we have here. Dhama is made from wood it's from Punjab it's straight like this. But a baya is a baya. The sound that it made. Oh my god)
Uska vajan, uski jaadi pudi, uski shaai, teeno mil gaya phir baya bajta hai bahut accha. Mujhe yaad hai sab logon ne banaya tha in dukandaaro ne store waale ne phir store mein leke gaya. Chandubhai kya, galat kiya hai kaam uska vajan dekho uski filing karo dekho mooh ka aur uska vajan ke hisaab se chamda banao, shaai lagao, dekho Baya bajta hai ke nahi. Toh tum batao mein itna bata diya aur kya batao. Aur main kya batau aapko? aap ke aadmi ko mere yahan bhej do main sikha doonga usse.
( It's weight, it's thick head, it's ink when the three come together the baya plays really well. All the stores here tried to make it and some them took me to the stores and asked Chandubhai what to do. I said this not right see the weight, file it well the head, and the skin has to be in proportion to the weight, put the ink, and see if the baya plays. I told them this much, what more could I tell them? What more could I tell you send your people here I can teach them. )
CR: Phir do teen jan aaye nahi ( 2-3 of them didn't come)
CR: Dekho abhi sound uski round dekho. ( Hear the sound.. see this round)
CR: Yeh ho gaya baaju rakh do.( This is done keep it aside)
CR: Yeh nakhun marte hai aapun yeh saahi sukhi ke nahi isliye nakhun maarke dekhte hai. Jo gela ho gaya toh nakhun beth jayega. Abhi saahi sukh gayi hai abhi. Yeh abhi ok ho gaya. Awaaz aana chahiye aisa.
CR: This thing I'm doing with my nail is to check if the ink has dried up. If it's wet the nail will leave a mark. The ink has dried now. This is okay now. It should make this kid of sound)
CR: Yeh Bengal se letter aaya hai Shanta Prasadji ka. Woh world famous sab se sab ka upar ka upar ka yeh admi hai baad mein sab log hai na sab uske neeche hai. Jabhi Janak Janak Payal Baaje picture hua Vasant Desai jo Gopi Kishan dance Sandhya sangeet Vasant Desai ka, jo tip ke table woh time pe nahi the
( This letter came from Bengal from Shanta Prasad. He's world famous he's right on top this man everyone comes after him. When Jhanak Jhanak Payal Baaje was made, Vasant Desai the dance by Gopi Kishan, Sandhya, music by Vasant Desai, there were no tip tabla's at the time.
SS: Kaunse table? ( What kind of tabla's?)
CR: Tip... high pitch kaali1, kaali 2, kaali 5. Edum high pitch tan tan awaaz hai woh hi woh apne dukan se chalu hua hai. Vasant Desai gaadi leke aate the Hillman gaadi uske upar symbol tha Saraswati ka, sitar bajate woh tha aur Shanta Prasad ghanto tak yahan bhet the aur apna karkhana bhi tha Lalbaug mein Abhyudaya Nagar mein wahan itne table banaye chote chote chaar inch se leke saath inch tak. Sava saath inch tak.
( Tip.. high pitch kaali 1 (notes in tabla tuning) kaali 2, kaali 5. Very high pitch makes a sharp sound that started from our shop. Vasant Desai would bring his car Hillman and it had a symbol of Saraswati playing the sitar and Shanta Prasad would sit here for hours and our workshop was in Lalbaug, Abhyudaya Nagar we made so many tabla's there small one's right from 4 inch ones to 7 inches, 7and a quarter inch.)
Tarang banaya usne woh sab Jhanak Jhanak Payal Baaje mein instrument baje hai. Aure apna Ramdas ji Pakhawa ji woh bhi apne yahan hi banate the. Andy Kohli woh bhi yahahi aate the.
( He made a Tarang and played these instruments in Jhanak Jhanak Payal Baaje Ramdas ji Pakhawa ji he would make it here as well. Andy Kohli he would come here too.)
SS: Aap pehle thoda batange ke yeh dukaan kab shuru huyi? Iska ithehas, ( Can you tell us when did was this shop set up? Its history,
CR: Ha... yeh dukaan. (Yes, this shop)
SS: naam ka ithehas ( The history behind the name of the shop)
CR: Yeh Azad Avanadha Vadyalaya jo hai woh 1945 kiya tabhi Azad likhne ka allowed nahi tha woh time pe, seedha andar. Pitaji bole hum toh Azad hi likhenge, woh ziddi the aur sab ( not clear) mein kya Samaj iske andar woh (not clear) sena bhi the woh time pe, magar apne apne iske upar label nahi lagaya woh admi ne alag rahe.
( This Azad Avanadha Vadyalaya was set up in 1945, at the time the word Azad was not allowed, it would get you arrested. My father said we will write Azad, he was stubborn and within the society and there was (not audible) army at the time, but he did not get labelled he was away from all this.
Kaam karte the unko sab British ka information unko dete the yeh hai, woh hai woh information sab kaam Pitaji ko dete the na ko media ke friend the British log... ah inspector log British woh (not clear) Theatre ke andar sab aate the na sab natak dekhne ko jaave wahan unko Pitaji information de deve kisko Satar Sena (not sure) jo koi... kya dhamaal hota hai woh tum dekho tumhera kaam tum dekho hum half pant pehnega hi nahi.
(He would do the work he would give information... this and that. Father would get the information some British friend in the media... or British inspectors. That (not clear) Theatre they would come for plays and my father would give the information to ( not clear) or whoever... he said you look after the chaos and handle your work, I won't wear shorts.)
CR: Woh time pe Pitaji ke paas revolver ka license tha aur do naali gun bhi license tha. Yeh baikaida license leke woh chalate the woh. Lekin main byapari hoon. Azad kyun naam rakha? Woh time pe woh hi sab dimaag mein tha woh time pe bas hum Azad rakhenge phir Avanadha phir yeh lagane yeh patiya lagane ke baad mein 6 mahine ke baad mein gaadi aake kahdi reh gayi British ki. Woh mereko.... hum woh time pe 5 saal ke the, mereko aur mere Pitaji ko leke Crawford market Police Station mein leke gaye.
( At that time my father had a license for revolver and he had license for a pistol. He would used it with a license. But I'm a businessman. Why did we name it Azad? At the time all those things were in his mind and he decided to call it Azad and Avanadha when we put up the board withing 6 months there was British van here. I was 5 at the time, they took me and my father to Crawford Market Police Station.)
Commissioner ke uske wahan... phir sab samajaya kuch jhol jhaal bhi huyi, maraa maari bhi huyi Pitaji ne bhi kiya woh time pe tabyet bhi acchi thi. Yeh rahe Pitaji, woh Mataji. Woh phir ek inspector pehchaan wala mil gaya ek gora. Ramji bhai kya? Bole yeh saala uthake leke aaye mereko dekho na kya karu abhi? Arrey bhai chodo chodo apna aadmi hai. Yeh Azad kyun likha par Azad hai. Azad ke peeche Avanadha jo shabd likha hai na woh Samved ke andar aata hai. Woh Sangeet ke hisaab se hota hai Avanadha.
( At the Commissioner... and they explained everything there was some trouble and a physical fight and my father also did it at the time he was quite well built. Here's my father and that's my mother. Then we met a British inspector who we knew... ( He said) What Ramjibhai? These guys brought me here what do I do now? He said let him go he's our man. Why did we write Azad ( Freedom) because we are free. The word after Azad is from Samveda it based on music Avanadha.)
Azad alag cheej hai woh swatantra hai aur Sangeet bhi swatantra hai... woh Madhav Baug ke trustee ko bulaya Pitaji ne woh European log ne bole uska purava kya hai apne paas? Phir phone kiya woh Madhav Baug ke trustee do ghode ke gaadi leke wahan Crawford market aaye aur saath mein Congress aur 4 -5 aadmi aaye. Woh time Vallabhbhai Bombay mein hazeer bhi the. Woh bhi aaye, Ramjibhai su kairyu? Bole Aam aam thayu su karu? Kai nai. Shaam mein aisa laya na trustee yeh Madhav Dasji woh sab ho gaya tumhara. Tum right point pe ho. Phir wahan se apni Gangabai aayi Ganga bole to kon? Pavan Pul pe jo gaane wali rehti aur bhi sab log aate the.
( Azad (Freedom) is different it's independent and Music is also independent... My father called the Madhav Baug trustee the European people said what proof do you have? Then we called the Madhav Baug trustee came with two horse carriages to Crawford Market and with them there were 4-5 people from Congress and at the time Vallabhbhai was in Bombay. He also come Ramjibhai what did you do? He said this what happened. What should I do? Nothing. In the evening when the Madhav Baug trustee comes it will get sorted. You are right. Gangabai also came. You know who Gangabai is? She used to live at Pavan Pul (Bridge) where he singers came everyone would go there.)
Swantra Sena unko bhi information woh Ganga bai deti thi woh time pe kya. Yeh dukaan aur Ganga bai aur theatre (Not sure about the name) theatre woh sab unke yeh the adde the. Adde bole toh accha milne ka sthan tha. Ek garden tha chowpatty pe tha ek udhar Hanging Garden pe milte te the sablog.
( She would pass on information to the Swantra Sena at the time. This shop and Ganga bai and the theatre these were their hangouts. Adde as in a meeting spot. There was a garden at Chowpatty and one was near Hanging Garden where everyone would meet.)
Magar lambe lambe teen teen chaar foot lambe rahe ke bolte the paas mein baith ke nahi kya. Sunne ko aave vaisa. Woh Naaz Hotel hai wahan bhi baith te the woh log. Magar yeh table pe lalag woh table pe alag. Par baath cheet chalu rahti thi. Aisa kaam tha woh time pe. Ganga bai ne bhi woh gaanewali hai na Gangabai usne bahut sabko yeh kiya usne. Manana padega woh Kalakar bhale tawaif kothe the, magar unka iske andar jo swatantra ke andar bahut bhaag diya hai. Apna shreya disya usne. Gangabai bahut hi acchi bai thi.
( But everyone would stand away from each other at least 4 feet away they would not sit next to each other. They would make sure they can hear each other. They would also meet at Naaz Hotel but they would not sit on the same table but the conversation would be going on. This is how it worked in those days. Gangabai the singer also did a lot. You have to give it those artists although they were courtesans, but they they were a huge part of the Freedom Struggle and made a huge contribution. Gangabai was a very nice lady.)
Oh Gangabai ke yahan Khansaab Ghulam Ali Khan Saab, Barkati Khan Saab aaye the Pakistan se unlog ki halat aisi kharab thi woh time pe ke pucho mat. Darga par baithe kisi Pakistan mein chaadar bitha ke gaana gaate the woh unke paise ke... un log ko bula liya Ganga bai ne woh kabhi 48' ke baad mein bula liya un log ko. Tum idhar aa jao Khan saab. Phir yahan rahe tarraki huyi unki aur acche.
( When Ghulam Ali Khansaab and Barkati Khan Saab came from Pakistan to Gangabai they were in not in a good position. They would sing at a dargah in Pakistan and so Gangabai called them here sometime after 48'. She said, You come here Khan Saab. He lived here and he succeeded a lot.)
SS: Yeh jab Congress House mein rehte the? ( This was when he stayed at the Congress House)
CR: Congress House righ,right. Congress House, Jinnah House... Jinnah Hall ke aage abhi Sangeet Sammelan.. Sangeet Mandal bolta hai usko bahut acchi wah wah... aisa aadmi nahi milege woh log. Abhi yeh dekho Shanta Prasad ne likhe diya. Padho. ( Just ahead of Jinnah Hall now it is called Sangeer Sammelan... Now it's called Sangeet Mandal (she was) very nice... now you don't find people like them anymore. Have a look at this Shanta Prasad has written this. Read it)
CW: Sakhar nahi na ajibat. ( There's no sugar)
CR: Ho gaya? ( Are you done?)
CR: Aur sab Khan saab log Kalakar log... Jai Shri Krishna. Aaiye. Aye apne ay aap toh besvanu. Gaadi. Gaadi. ( And all the Khan Saab's and artists... Jai Shri Krishna. Come. Please give the cushion. )
CR: Barabar? Ho gaya? ( Is it ok? Done?)
SS: Thoda yeh Congress House aur woh daur thoda aur bataenge? ( Will you tell us a little more about Congress House and about that time?)
CR: Bataenge kyun nahi? Wahan toh hum bachpan se khelte the. Batane mein kya harja hai? ( I will tell, why not? I used to play there as a kid. What's the harm in talking about it?)
CW: Aata pankha karu kai? Jara don minta pan nahi ( Can I switch on the fan now? Not even for two minutes)
AN: Nahi ( No)
CR: Nahi, nahi, nahi pankho joyech nai. ( No, no, no we don't need the fan.)
SS: Toh aap bachpan se wahan Congress House mein khele? ( So you have spent you childhood playing in Congress House?)
CR: Nahi Pitaji main Pitaji ke saath rehta.. Pitaji mujhe wahan leke jaate the. Kalakar kaise rehte hai? Kala ki vyakhya kya hai? Yeh gaana bajana kya hai? Sabko bachpan se mujhe uske andar chod diya aur hum sun te the aur use angikar bhi diya. Angikar bole toh iski kadar kaise hoti hai? kya kaisa bolna chahiye? kaisa hai? Uske kuch tarike rehte hai. Mujhe accha lagta hai iske andar tumhara education kaam nahi lagta. General knowledge kaam laga hai iske andar. Sangeet ke andar General knowledge. Education nahi aata uske andar. Uski degree nahi hai. Degree hai unki?
( I used to be with my father and my father would take me there. How did artists live? What is the definition of art? What is this singing and music? He just left me there and I used to listen to it and I learned to appreciate it. How do you say something? What is it? There some ways to do it. I like this there is no use of education in this. This needs general knowledge. Music needs general knowledge. There's no education in music. There is no degree for it. Is there a degree? No right? )
TN: Nahi MA toh... MA sangeet mein mil sakta hai. ( No MA is... you can get a MA in music)
CR: Abhi ho raha hai pehlewoh time nahi tha. Ha Samved (not clear) woh bhool apun bolne ko woh beech mein choot gaya. Samved mein sab amuk page pe Pitaji bola amuk page pe Samved ke andar yeh avanadha shabd aata hai. Sangeet kisi ka baandha hua nahi hai. Uska ghulam nahi hai isliye Azad rakha hai. British officer jo tha topi pehen ke lamba right point Ramjibhai I'm very sorry, bol diya, likhe diya usne. British ne likhe diya woh khat mereko milta nahi hai. Bahut badi baat ho gayi woh toh. Bahut badi baat ho gayi.
( Maybe it's happening now it didn't happen earlier. Yes, Samved... I forgot to talk about it earlier. In Samved on this particular page my father said on this particular page in the Samved this word 'avanadha' is there. Music is not bound by anything. It's not a slave to anyone, that's why it's called Azad (Independent). The British officer who was there he said right point Ramjibhai I'm very sorry, he wrote it down. British
wrote it down, I can't find that letter. It's a very big deal. It's a very big deal.)
SS: Ek pura khat diya tha? ( They gave a whole letter?)
CR: Haat ke... woh time pe ball pen... fountain pen thi yeh itna jaada uska yeh. Aur moru shaai ki bhi aati thi woh time pe. Likh ke diya hume galti ho gayi. Yeh humare jo officer hai mere haat ke neeche commissioner usne bahut galti kiya hai aur tumko bahut dukh hua hai iske andar. Sorry. Tum uske liye Harzana kya hum dene ke liye paisa dene ko tayaar hai.
( By hand... at that time ball pen... there was fountain pen and the nib was that fat. You would get ( moru) ink. He wrote, we made a mistake. Our officer has made a mistake and we are very sorry about it. We are willing to pay the cost of the damages)
Pitaji bola chod do yaar, kya paisa tum denge? Tum wahan se bhaag ke idhar aaye aur humko loot ke tum leke jaate udhar. Pitaji ne sab mooh pe bol diya usko. Vallabhbhai bole arrey su boloch Ramjibhai? Vallabhbhai.. tame su bolo cho khabar padech? Aapde baddha andar thasu. ( not audible) Nahi nahi bolna jaroori hai wahan pe bolna jaroori hai aur right point pe hai yeh.
( Father said forget it, how will you pay any money? You have left everything and come here, you loot us and take it back there. My father said this to him. Vallabhbhai said, what are you saying Ramjibhai? Vallabhbahi said, Do you realise what you are saying? We will all get arrested... No, no it's important to speak about it there and he had a point.)
CR: Aur Pitaji Gandhi ke yeh the woh. Magar usne apne badan pe Rajkaran nahi likha hai. Jara bhi nahi yeh chahiye bhi nahi Sangeet Sangeet hai ha uski bhasha bhi alag hai. Sangeet ki.
( And father was a Gandhi follower. But he never associated himself with politics. Not at all and he didn't want it all. Music is music and its language is different.)
SS: Toh Aapke Pitaji Bambai kaise aaye? ( How did your father come to Bombay?)
CR: Ha humare Dada ke paas. ( He was with my grandfather)
SS: Dada aaye the? ( Your grandfather came here?)
CR: Mereko abhi yahan Bombay mein is jageh pe sau saal huya hai. Abhi meri umar hai 73... trehatar saal ki meri umar hai. Toh Pitaji kabhi unki chote the 15 saal ke the tabhi yahan aaye hai. ( It's been 100 years I have been here. My age is 73. Father came here when he was 15.)
SS: Toh... ( Then..)
TN: Aur Dada kya kaam karte the? ( What did your grandfather do?)
CR: Yeh hi kaam karte the. ( He did the same work)
SS: Toh yahan kaise Mugbhat galli kaise aaye? ( So how did he come to Mugbhat lane?)
CR: Mugbhat... ha yeh bole toh accha hai Mugbhat.. Thakur Dwar bole jaate the. Thakur Dwar bole toh yahan Thakurji ka mandir hai naake pe. Bank of India hai na Bank of sorry Dena Bank... Ram Mandir uske aage Thakurji ka mandir hai. uske wajah se naam gira Thakur Dwar, Girgaum.
( Mugbhat.. yes this is nice Mugbhat. It was also known as Thakur Dwar. Thakur Dwar because was a temple here on the road. There's Bank of India sorry Dena Bank... There's a Ram Mandir and just a little ahead there's a Thakurji temple. That's why the name Thakur Dwar. Girgaum.
Girgaum ka pura ilaka yahan se hi hota hai kahan se? Dimline se chalu ho jata hai upto Chirabazar, Girgaum bola jaata hai, aisa Khetwadi yeh Girgaum mein aa gaya. Kuch hoga woh time pe. Aur Mugbhat bhi bolte hai woh time choti choti... yeh baadi thi. Yahan mug kya kuch Mugbhat iski bhi story hai. Itna apne ko malum nahi.
(The whole Girgaum area is from here. It starts from Dimline upto Chirabazar is called Girgaum, Khetwadi also comes in Girgaum. There must be something at the time. Mugbhat also they say at that time there were small... this was a small village. They call it Mugbhat there's a story behind it. But I don't know much.)
SS: Yahan pe jo sab tabla banane waale hai yahan pe kaise aaye? Mugbhat galli ekdum famous hai na? ( So how did the tabla makers come here? Mugbhat lane is very famous right?)
CR: Ha, Mugbhat famous hai. Pehle yahan chaar hi dukaan thi. Yeh Indian Embassy. Yeh dekho yeh letter humney likha tha woh time pe. Woh likha hai uske andar.
( Yes, Mugbhat is famous. First there were only 4 shops here. This is from the Indian Embassy. See this letter which I had written.)
SS: Yeh aapne likha hai? ya Pitaji ne? ( Did you write this or your father?)
CR: Ha ( yes)
SS: Yeh aapne likha hai na? ( You wrote this right?)
CR: Aur uske andar kya? Woh cricket time pe woh apna flag pe nanga chalegaya na woh aadmi uske hisaab se likha maine. Woh aadmi udhar ka hi tha jawab nahi diya usne. Jawab dena jaroori tha usku yeh meri sign hai C R Mewada. (not audible)... apne government ko bhi letter likha aur unke ( not audible) ko bhi likha hai maine. Magar jawab mujhe reply nahi mila. Bahut dukh hua mujhe. Anant (not clear) dukh hua.
( This was during the cricket match this man who walked naked on the Indian flag I wrote it because of that. That man was from there he did not reply to my letter. It was important for him to reply. This is my signature C R Mewada... I wrote to our government and I also wrote to the ( not audible) but I didn't get a reply. I felt very bad.)
CR: Apne cricket board waale karte hai kya? Woh dekhte nahi? Ha? ( What does our Cricket Board do? They don't see?)
SS: Par yahan jo jab aapki dukaan bani toh yahan pe us samay is ilaake mein kaun kaun se musicians gujre hoenge? ( But when you set shop here at that time which musicians came to this area?)
CR: Ha, yahan ( Yes, here)
SS: Kyunke yahan aapka Trinity club bhi yahin hai. ( Because there's Trinity Club here)
CR: Barobar hai ( Correct)
SS: Laxmi Baug bhi yahin hai. ( Laxmi Baug is also here)
CR: Ha (Yes).. Bhatwadi
SS: Toh sab log yahin se gujar rahe the. Toh aapki dukaan pe kaun kaun aaya hoga? Aur kin kin se aapki mulaqat huyi hogi?
( So everyone would have passed from here. Who has come to your shop and whom did you meet?)
CR: Meri nahi Pitaji ki. Meri nahi. Meri huyi hai nahi aisa nahi par iske andar. ( Not audible) Yeh Khan Saab Bade Ghulam Khan Saab. Yeh Pandit Bhaskar Bua. Abdul Karim Khan Saab ke shishya. Bhaire Bua, Abdul Karim Khan Saab ke shishya nahi? Bhaire Bua
(Not me my father.. not me I have met some people. (not audible)... Khan Saab Bade Ghulam Khan Saab. Yeh Pandit Bhaskar Bua. Abdul Karim Khan Saab's student. Bhaire Bua wasn't he Abdul Karim Khan Saab's student?
CR: Bhimsen baad mein aaye. Bhimsen naam kar diya. Bhimsen Joshi ne. Bas sabka jyada kar ke gaana Bhaire bua karke the Ratnagiri ke woh yahan aake baith te the joh uski halak nikal ti thi gale mein se Pandit Bhaskar bua aur dono guru bandhu.
( Bhimsen came later. Bhimsen made it famous, Bhimsen Joshi. Among everyone's singing there was Bhaire bua from Ratnagiri he would come and sit here his voice... Pandit Bhaskar bua and him were fellow students)
TN: Aur Suresh Babu nahi aaye? Sureshbabu Mane? (not audible) ka beta (Didn't Sureshbabu come here? Sureshbabu Mane?
CR: Mane? Ha ( Mane? Yes)
TN: Woh bhi aya tha ( He also came here)
CR: Ha Sureshbabu.. right right.
CR: Sureshbabu, barobar hai aap bol rahe the. Main kya bolta hoon woh time pe main chota tha Pitaji ke time pe tha. Yeh aap jo bol rahe hai na Sureshbabu main chota tha. Uske paas ek kutta tha.
( Sureshbabu is right what you were saying. What I'm saying is this was when I was young around my father's time. Whom you just mentioned Sureshbabu I was young then. He had a dog.)
TN: Kutta? ( A dog?)
CR: Ha ( Yes)
TN: Ha, ha
CR: Kinke paas? Abdul Karim Khan Saab ke paas. Woh aapko baat malum hogi ke nahi mujhe malum nahi. I don't know. Jo abhi. ( Who? Abdul Karim Khan Saab had it. I don't know if you know this. I don't know. Now...)
TN: Woh concert mein gaate the... ( He would sing in concerts)
CR: His Master's Voice ne jo bataya na monogram ke saamne woh mooh kholke. Jo Khan saab gaye uska sur woh nikale. Uske aage ka bhi sur woh kutta nikal ta tha. Kya. Woh Kutte ko train kar rahe toh aadmi kya hai? Aadmi toh train hi hai uske andar... train hi train hai. Ek isko kutte ko woh woh bookh ke Khansaab ke jo sur lagta woh hi sur lagate the kutte. Ek hi kutta tha woh. Phir 10 saal mein ho ke mar gaya bechara. Bahut accha, aap Sureshbabu ko bataya na uska pyara tha woh.
( Like it's in His Master's Voice the dog in front of the monogram. Whatever Khan Saab would sing he would emulate the same note. The dog would know the following note too. If he could train a dog, humans are not a big deal. Humans are trained into it. If a dog could bark and match the notes that Khan Saab would sing. There was just one dog. He died when he was 10 years old poor thing. He was very nice, you spoke about Sureshbabu right? He was very dear to him.)
Aur uska yeh apna HMV na? Woh uske andar recording mein uska monogram mein laga hai woh bahut accha tha. Uska paisa Khan Saab ko dete the woh log.
( And this HMV right? and has his image near the monogram it was very nice. They paid Khan Saab for that.)
CR: Yeh Tony Blair ka likha tha ( I wrote this to Tony Blair)
CR: Yeh maine likha ( I wrote this)
SS: yeh kab likha tha aapne? ( When did you write this?)
CR: Woh saal likhe hai uske andar ( The year will be written
CR: Yeh iska reply... Yeh reply Tony Blair ka. Usko maine galti se kya kar diya. Dear sir likhna chahiye, main likha hi nahi. Friend hai na? Kya jaroorat hai firend ko. Seedha Tony Blair only for Tony Blair. ( This is the reply...This is Tony Blair's reply. What I did by mistake I didn't write any Dear Sir because he's a friend. What is the need to wrote that for a friend. I just wrote Tony Blair only Tony Blair)
SS: Apne bataya nahi Tony Blair kab aaye the yahan pe? ( You didn't tell us when did Tony Blair come here?)
CR: Woh... 65' mein ( He came in 65')
SS: Kaise? ( How? )
CR: Woh aaye the trade ka kaam sikhne ko. Dange ke paas Bhai Dange ke paas woh union mein tha na Tony bhi majdoor ke union k hi aadmi tha. Yahan 5 saal raha tha Tony Saheb. Rajnibhai Patel ke paas khana khaate the woh aur ISCUS wahan jaake building mein sote the. Top floor ke upar. Laxmi building hai wahan. ( He had come to learn something about trade. He had come to Dange Bhai. He was part of the union and Tony was part of the labour union. He lived here for 5 years Tony Saheb. He used to eat at Rajnibhai Patel's and he sleep in the ISCUS building on the top floor near Laxmi building.)
SS: Toh aapki dukaan pe kaise aaye? ( How did he come to your shop?)
CR: Main wahan jata tha na ISCUS ke andar Indo Soviet Cultural Society ke andar blood mein rehta hai na Pitaji ka. Sunne ko dekhne ko kya kya chalo. Kuch na kuch mile apne sochne ke liye kuch naya mile apne ko. Woh blood ke andar rehta hi apna. Aisa humara ladka ek hai woh bhi social hai. ( I would go to ISCUS - Indo Soviet Cultural Society I have it in my blood from my father. I would go to listen and watch. You have find some things to think about. It's there in my blood. One of my son's is a socialist)
CR: Oh bhai aa dhando chodi de aapda chokra baccha sambhal aney kaam kar. Apru kaam nathi main kairu bau thayu. Dekho Vajpayee saab. In log sabke saath apna relation hai. ( Bhai you should leave all this and take care fo your kids and work. This is not our job I did it and that was enough. See this is from Vajpayee. I have maintained relation with everyone)
SS: Hmm... Toh Vajpayeeji ke saath kaise mulaqat huyi hogi? (So how did you meet Vajpayee?)
CR: Yeh bolna jaroori hai. 60 mein 1960 mein main apne Pratap Keshav Atre Sanyukta Maharashtra Samiti ke jo maaney huye hai Appa Pendse, Daange wahan meeting thi Colaba mein Koliwada mein. Sarvapakshi ko bataye the sabko bulaya.
( It's important to talk about this. In 1960 I was with Pratap Keshav Atre he was a respected member of the Sanyukta Maharashtra Samiti Appa Pendse, Dange there was a meeting in Colaba, Koliwada. They had called all party members.)
CR: Woh time pe hum meeting mein gaye the Koliwada mein, Khandoba mandir ke paas sab Koli log baithe the wahan stage baandha tha bakaida. Fernandes sablog aaye the wahan. (not audible) Patil bhi aaye the. ( At the time we went for a meeting at Koliwada, near the Khandoba temple and all the Koli people (fishermen) were there, they had built a stage. Fernandes and everyone was there. Sakha Patil was also there.
SS: Kaun ( Who?)
CR: Sakha Patil? Congress ka. Woh bhi aaye the humlog sunne ko baithe main aur (not audbile) aise hi aaram se. Mere mooh se nikal gaya dekho yaar poore Bhagwan ko neeche utaa rahe Vajpayee Sahab kya acchi language hai unki wah wah. Sab Bhagwaan neeche aa gaye. Abhi usko bhejega kaun usko upar? Toh apna Appa dekhte aisa Chandrakant tu yahan bhi chalu ho gaya Bhagwaan ke upar? Main kya karu abhi dekho na abhi sab Bhagwaan ko yeh laaye. )
(Sakha Patil from the Congress. He had also come we sat there to listen me and (not audible) we were all relaxed. I happened to say, See he has descended all the Gods Vajpayee. His language is good. All Gods had descended. Now who will send them back up? Appa looked at me and said Chandrakant you started here as well about God? I said what I do he has brought all the Gods down.)
G. S Reddy mere baju mein (not clear) baithe woh hass raha hai G S bola thair inka lecture khatam hone de tereko dekhta hoon abhi. Dekhta hoon bole toh? Maarne wala hai kya tu mereko? Nahi, nahi tu ek hi iske upar ek hi lafz bol ke tune chod diya sab Bhagwaan ko neeche laake rakha barobar hai? Woh sunne jaisi baat hai teri ke tu tere dimaag mein kya aa gaya aisa? Mereko aa sab yeh language sab accha nahi aisa nahi. Sab Bhagwaan ko neeche laya kyun? Ke aaj kal kidhar way ja raha hai kidahr idhar ja raha hai kidhar ko kahan ja raha hai. Magar accha kiya usne.
( G. S Reddy was sitting next to me he was laughing G.S said wait let him finish his lecture and I'll deaL with you. Deal with me are you going to hit me? No, no you just said one thing... you said one word and left it... he has made all the Gods descend right? It's something worth listening what was running in your head. It just came to me his language is very good he really made the Gods descend why? Like where are we heading to? Someone's going in this direction someone's going in the other way. But he did well)
TN: Aap toh kaunse kaunse functions ko jaate the? ( What functions would you attend)
CR: Ha ( Yes)
TN: Toh cultural function aur yeh bhashan sab. Aur kya hota tha pehle? ( So you would go for cultural function and speeches. What else use to happen earlier?)
CR: Wahan... function mein bole to Sangeet Sabha jyada jaata tha main aur yeh sab function attend karta tha. Nahi aisa nahi social kaam ko attend karna jaroori hai mere liye. ( There... function as in I would go for a lot of Sangeet Sabha's but I would attend the other functions as well. It was important for me to attend social work meetings.)
TN: Aur kahan pe hote the Sangeet Sabha sab? ( Where did the Sangeet Sabha's happen?)
CR: Ha... pehle conference huyi Azad Maidan mein 56' mein 56' nahi sorry 57' ki saal Brij Narayan ne kiya tha woh time hamare Pitaji bhi uske andar sakriya kaam kar rahe the. Woh dusre P Madhukar, Ganga Prasad Pathak aur Madhav Baug ke do the na gaanewale woh bhi uske andar the 6 ke 10 aadmi uske andar unhone start kiya.
( Yes... the first conference happened at Azad Maidan in 56' sorry not in 56' in the year 57' Brij Narayan had done it at the time my father also participated. Him, P Madhukar, Ganga Prasad Pathak and two singers from Madhav Baug there were also part of it. There 6 to10 people who started it.)
Brij Nayaranji bole Ramji Bhai. Brij Narayan vakil (not clear) ka bhai. Bole ek kaam tum karo tum yeh sambhal lo ek bhag. Kalakar ko tum dekh lo, Madhukar, Pednekar tum iska jo mangta hai Kalakar ko instrument woh department tum sambhalo. Vakil ko bataya tu collection dekh paise ke liye woh tera bhaag. Aur 10 aadmi ko aisa chod diya ke poocho mat.
( Brij Narayan said Ramji Bhai. Brij Narayan is a lawyer ( not clear) his brother. He said you do one thing you handle one part of this. You handle the the artists. Madhukar and Pednekar you give whatever instruments the artists need you handle that department. He told the lawyer you handle the collection of the money. He gave all the freedom to these 10 people)
Aur tab se Haridas Sangeet Sammelean chalu ho gaya woh time se 57' ya 56' se. Woh time riots bhi hua tha. Woh time conference ho gayi. Nahi hua nahi... hua. Magar kiski ko dhakka nahi hua. Woh time pe Azad Maidan mein tambu daal ke unhone function chalu kiya. Yahan Calcutta mein Lalaji the. Kanpur aur Calcutta mein Lalaji the tab woh time pe Brij Narayan yeh Pitaji sab saath mein gaye the wahan.
( And since then Hairdas Sangeet Sammelan started since 57' or 56'. There were riots also at the time. The conference happened inspite of that. At the time they put a tent in Azad Maidan and started the function. There was Lalaji in Calcutta. Kanpur and Calcutta there was Lalaji and at the time Brij Narayan and my father went there with everyone.
CR: Aapne ne piya? ( Did you drink?)
TN: Ha ( Yes)
CR: Woh time pe pata hai Ramji Bhai yahan dekho dus-dus din ki conference hoti hai? Navratri mein bhi hoti hai (not clear) function apne Bambai mein nahi hai. Bombay mein kaun karega bhai? Bole apun sab 10 jahan baithe hai toh thaam lo ke ho jayega kya. Sab 10 din hotel mein rahe aaram se woh log.
(At the time Ramji Bhai did you know there are 10 day conferences that happen here? During Navratri also they have functions Bombay doesn't have this. Who will do this in Bombay? The 10 of us sitting here if we decide we can do it. Everyone lived in the hotel for 10 days)
SS: Kaun Kaun aaya hoga? Yeh sammelan ke liye kaun kaun aaya hoga? ( Who would have come for this Sammelan?)
CR: Arre poocho mat sab line lagi thi udhar toh. Kalakar log bhi bahargaon se sab log suna unhone Bombay mein conference ho rahi hai. Wahan usne Brij Narayan ne announce kar diya udhar ke iske baad mein agle saal yeh hi time time par hum log Bombay mein conference kar rahe hai. Madhukar bole Brij Narayan kya kar raha hai? Bole nahi nahi abhi karne ka. Apun 10 aadmi mil gaye baad mein kya hai? Sab log kaam share kar lenge uske andar paise ki baat chodo. Apna Kailash Baug hai na Kailash Nath woh paise de dega apne ko kaise bhi laake dega
( Don't ask there were queues there. The artists came from all over they heard there is a conference in Bombay. Brij Narayan announced it there that after this next year we will do a conference in Bombay, Madhukar said Brij Narayan what are you doing? He said we should do it. The 10 of us have met what else do we need? We can share the work don't worry about money. Kailash Baug....Kailash Nath will give the money he'll arrange the money somehow.)
SS: Kaun hai Kailash Nath? ( Who is Kailash Nath?)
CR: Vakil, Vakil. Jo election mein kahde huye the na woh. ( Lawyer, Lawyer. Who stood for elections that one.)
TN: Aur gaane waale kon the us Azad Maidan ( And who were the singers at Azad Maidan)
CR: Gangubai Hangal, tabhi acchi thi, phir apna yeh Benaras ke yeh thumri ghazal waale kya naam hai? Accha naam hai . ( Gangubai Hangal, she was good at the time and then from Benaras the thumri ghazal singers what was the name? It's a nice name.)
TN: Girija Devi?
TN: Girija Devi?
CR: Girija Devi... uska aur bhi ek devi hai do teen devi hai. Woh sab line mein aur ek time khana yahan. Woh time pe kairi ka season tha Pitaji kaat kaat ke deve choti choti (not clear), khao. Shanta Prasad, Anokhi Lal wah wah kya tabla woh time Kishen Maharaj pucho mat. Tabhi yeh in log yeh Khan Saab jo abhi hai na aisa unka class nahi tha kya. Ya Firoz Dastur accha aadmi. Parsi ka Firoz Dastur gaane wala bahut accha.
( Girija Devi... there is one more devi there two three devi's. All of them and they would have one meal here. It was mango season at that time father could cut small pieces for them, eat. Shanta Prasad, Anokhi Lal the tabla was so good that time. Kishen Maharaj don't ask. That time these Khan Saab's didn't have a class. Firoz Dastur was a good man. Firoz Dastur was a Parsi such a good singer.)
SS: Woh yahin pe kahin rehte hai... rehte the? ( He lives around here somewhere... used to live?)
CR: Woh yahan nahi. Woh rehte the alag thikane pe. Par gana gaane Trinity club mein aate the woh. Master Krishna Rao. ( Not here. He used to live at some other place. But he would come to sing here at Trinity Club. Master Krishnarao)
SS: Kaunsa club? ( Which club?)
TN: Trinity Club ( Trinity Club)
TN: Woh Khetwadi mein rehte the na. ( He used to live in Khetwadi)
CR: Na Colaba.
CR: Firoz Dastur na? ( Firoz Dastur right?)
TN: Ha wahan baad mein chale gaye, sorry (He went there later, sorry.)
CR: Aur apna yeh... hasee bhi aati hai kabhi kabhi mereko aaj kahan jhopadpatti mein rehte the aaj kahan Neapean Sea road, Simla House yeh baaz chale gaye hai sab log. Accha unka naseeb hai. Unhone kaam bhi aisa kiya hai. Yeh (not clear) Khan Saab, Ravi Shankar woh time sau rupiya bahut ho gaya un log ko. Bahut yaani bahut hi ho gaya. Woh sau ki patti hi nahi dikhti thi woh time pe. Ramji Bhai function rakho yeh karo woh karo. Yeh conference shuru hone baad unke din acche aaye. Unke din acche baad mein aaye hain. Pehle nahi the.
( And this... sometimes I find it funny they were living in slums and today they are living at Nepean Sea road, Simla House all these people. It's their luck. They worked for it. (Not clear) Khan Saab, Ravi Shankar at the time even 100 Rs. was a lot. It was quite a lot. We did not see the 100 rupee note that often. Ramji bhai please organise a function do this and that. After these conference were started they had good days. Before that it wasn't all that good for them.)
TN: Yeh 56' mein hua tha kya? ( This was in 56'?)
SS: Toh yeh jo Trinity club bagal mein hi hai toh aapne toh sabko suna hoga phir? Bachpan se? ( This Trinity club which is right next door you muct have heard all of them since childhood?)
CR: Ha...ha... ( Yes, yes... Jai Shri Krishna)
SS: Baat karni hai hum se? ( They want to talk to us?)
CR: Nahi ( No)
SS: Toh yeh Trinity Club ka aapke hisaab se kya importance hai? ( What is the importance of Trinity club according to you?)
CR: Ha iski bhi story bahut acchi hai.... chai pe lu? ( Yes, this has a nice story about it... Can I have my tea?)
CR: Sab log chaupadi par baithte vahan jitne Maharashtrians jo hai Sangeet wale kahin garden pakad wahan baith te the. Woh baat mein baat nikla Bhaskar Bua ke saath arre bhai room toh bahut milti hai apne baithne uthne ka thikana toh banao kaun Master Krishnarao bole Poonawale.
( Everyone would sit out there all the Maharashtrians who related to music they would sit near the garden. So the topic came up with Bhaskar Bua we get a lot of rooms but we should have a space for ourselves Master Krishnarao from Poona said.)
Bhaire Bua bole woh time pe arrey bhai Bhaskar Bua arrey tu tar ikadech rahto Bombay madhey proper aahes tu aata sodh kuthe te aapan basuya tithe. Woh time pe yeh Trinity bole toh 3-4 aadmi ne jo Trinity club le liya hai usne woh abhi tak abhi chalu hai. Aur bahut hi accha kaam kiya unhone. Aur bahut hi accha kaam Sangeet ke liye.
( Bhaire Bua said that time Bhaskar Bua, you live here in Bombay you are from here you look for a place and we will meet there. At the time this Trinity was bought over by 3-4 people and it's still running. They have done good work. This is very good for music.)
SS: Kyun... Kyun aap kahenge ke bahut jaroori kaam tha ya bahut accha kaam tha? Ke yeh Trinity club bana usse kya parivartan aaya? Kya? ( Why... Why would you this was important or this was good work? What were the changes that Trinity club brought? What?)
CR: Abhi toh main 4-5 saal se gaya nahi upar. Yeh jo pehle kalakar aate the hum neeche khade reh ke bhi sunte the yaani itna uska awaaz bhaari tha, mic ki jaroorat nahi thi. Abhi toh aisa bolte hai na kya abhi mobile pe bolte hai apne ko sunne ko hi nahi aata baju mein hai lekin apne ko sun nahi sakte aise ahste ahste bolte hai.
( For the last 4-5 years I haven't been there. Back then when the artists came we would stand downstairs and listen their voices used to be so good that they didn't need mics. Now when people speak on the mobile phone we can't hear even if it's next to us we can't hear people speak so softly.)
Abid Hussain Khan Saab Janjira waale. Yahan... Yeh hi jageh pe raat ko Bhairav khada kar diya usne. Abid Hussain Khan Saab, Janjira ke nawab gaane wale woh mool Abid Hussain Khan Saab Junagad ke the. Woh Junagad ke nawab ne uske ladki se shaadi kiya woh yahan aa gayi. Woh Abid Hussain Khan Saab ko leke aaye dehez mein kya? Woh Junagad Nawab ki ladki hai. Janjira ka nawab tha usse shaadi kiya. (not clear) ke parivar hai woh log.
( Abid Hussain Khan Saab of Janjira. He made the Bhairav come alive at night at this place. Abid Hussain Khan Saab who sang for the nawab of Janjira. He was originally from Junagad. The nawab of Junagad married his daughter and she came here. He got Abid Hussain Khan Saab as part of the dowry. She was the daughter of the nawab of Junagad. The nawab of Janjira he got married to her. They were part of the (not audible) family
SS: Ha abhi boliye ( You can speak now)
CR: Yeh jo cheque diya hai mereko woh time pe kabhi ka saal hai? 57 ki... main kaat dikhata hoon aapko. ( This cheque that was given to me at that time what year is it? 57... I can cut it and show it to you.)
SS: Nahi rehne dijiye aise dekh lenge ( No let it be I'll see it like this)
CR: Nahi uske andar nahi aayega ( No it won't come)
SS & TN: Baad mein le lenge ( We'll take it later)
SS: Aap pehle bata dijiye ( You talk about it first)
CR: Yeh A R Qureshi. A R Qureshi bole toh kaun? ( This is A R Qureshi... Who is A R Qureshi?)
SS: Ek minute, ha abhi boliye ( One minute, yes now you can speak now)
CR: A R Qureshi bole toh Alla Rakha Rahmat Ali Qureshi, Zakir ke Pitaji unka woh time pe unko...jaane do woh chod do woh alag cheez hai. ( A R Qureshi is Alla Rakha Rahmat Ali Qureshi, Zakir's father this is at that time... let it be that's a different thing)
SS: Nahi nahi boliye ( No, no please say)
CR: Mahim unka ghar tha uska bhada dene ke liye woh time pe maine mere bank se 500 uthake de diya. Unhone cheque diya. Bola baba mereko jaane ka hai bahar gaon ghoomne ke liye mujhe paisa chahiye. Tabhi 17 ka tha main ghoomne ke liye woh time baarish majja aati thi ghoomne ke liye hum log jaate the. Khan saab yahan aaye woh time pe. Yeh le Chandu cheque deta hoon tereko. Phir yeh date dene baad mein main 10 din ke baad mein gaya Andheri mein. Pitaji bole bhai Chandu direct wahan pohchna mat manager se mil udhar unke paas hai ke nahi tujhe dekhna padega tereko. Direct uske paas counter pe mat jaana.
( He had a house in Mahim and to pay the rent for that house I had given 500 rupees from my account. He gave me a cheque I told him I have to go for vacation I need my money. I was 17 then, I used to like traveling during the rains. At the time we used to go out. Khan Saab came and said Chandu I'll give you a cheque. I went after 10 days to Andher. My father said Chandu don't go there directly, first meet the manager you will have to check if he has the money. Don't go to the counter directly.)
TN: Toh kya hua bank mein? ( What happened at the bank?)
CR: Main counter pe gaya pehle wahin mila Dena bank waale ko. Bole Chandu Azad Vadyalaya kon hai? Mere Pitaji ki dukaan hai. Unke dukaan ke naam pe diya hai. Mere peeche ek sign main unka ladka hoon. Accha koi baat nahi. Usne muster mangaya. Par aapka cheque toh 250 ka hai uske khaate mein 125 rupaiye kya karenge apan bolo? Main jaata hoon aisa hi leke dusra kya hai? Woh hamare Vinayak ke guruji hai hum bol nahi sakte usko aaya aisa hi main gaya tha.
( I went to the counter I met the Dena bank person. He asked who is Chandu Azad Vadyalaya? I said it's my father's shop. It's given for his shop. It has my father's signature on the back and I am his son. He said it's okay. He calle for the muster. He said your cheque s for 250 Rs. and his account has 125 Rs. what should we do? I said I'll go back what else? He's Vinayak's guru we cannot say anything to him. I went back. )
( Not clear) Khan ke ladke wahan baitha Ghulam Haider uska ladka aaya tha. Chalo Chandubhai jayenge wahan pe bank mein dekhenge (not audible) ka bhatija. Phir vapas gharpe aaye hum log bapa paisa nathi, kai vaando nai. Main aisa sambhal ke rakha usko. Pitaji ne bataya Alla Rakha bhai arrey ha yaar galti ho gayi meri abhi kya karoon? Koi baat nahi maine usko 500 de diya ladke ko. Woh Kolahpur jayega abhi ghumne ko. Dost log hum ghumne jaate the madir mein idhar udhar. Aur apna greenery dekhne ko jaate the hum log, camera saath mein leke. Kya majja... enjoyed life.)
( Not clear) Ghulam Haider's son Chandubhai let's go to the bank (not audible) his nephew. We came back home father there's no money, no problem. I have just kept it safe with me. Father told Alla Rakha and he said sorry it was my mistake what should I do now? It's ok I gave my son 500 (Rs). He'll go to Kolhapur for a vacation. I would go with my friends to temples and other places we would go to see the greenery and take our camera's. It was fun, enjoyed life.
SS: Yeh tab se apne paas hi rakha? ( You have kept this with you since then?)
CR: Khan Saab ne bataya Chandu beta woh cheque mereko de de. Na bol diya, nahi doonga. Bole ek kaam kar mere itne khaate hai foreign ke usme ek khaata paisa tereko de deta hoon. Me bola jara bhi nahi main aapko yeh cheque deta mere peeche iske cheque ke peeche mere Pitaji ka sign hai.Yeh sign mere baap ki hai, abhi woh sign mujhe milne waala nahi hai Khan Saab aapki toh sign zinda hai woh kabhi bhi mil jayegi par yeh sign hai na bahut important hai mere liye Ramjibhai ki. Woh time pe Pitaji kalakar log ko paisa dete the ghar ke bhaade ke andar (not audible). Yeh sign mujhe nahi milegi mujhe abhi Pitaji ka abhi gayi yaani ke yaadgiri ho gayi.
( Khan Saab said Chandu son give me that cheque. I said no I won't give it. He said I have so many foreign accounts I can give you money form one of these accounts. I said I don't want it I said I could give you the cheque but it has my father's signature behind it. This is my father's sign I won't get this sign back Khan Saab I can get your's you are still alive but this sign is very important for me Ramjibhai's. My father used to lend money to artists at that time for their house rent, (not audible). I won't get this sign now it's gone. This is a memory for me)
CR: Ammaji bolte the Zakir ke Pitaji... Mataji bole Khan Saab rehne do ( Ammaji would say Zakir's father... mother Khan Saab let it be)
SS: Take it later. We'll take it later. Baad mein lenge
CR: Khan Saab rehne do woh cheque kisko nahi dega woh apne collection mein rakh diya usne. Jaane do Chandubhai uski sign 57 ki hai yaar. (not clear) Ha rakhi hai maine.... mujhe de do baad mein jab bhi time (not clear) tabhi doonga abhi nahi doonga
( Khan Saab let it be he won't give the cheque to anyone he has kept it in his collection. Let it be Chandubhai the sign is from 57'. Yes, I have kept it.... give it to me I'll give it later when the time comes not now.)
SS: Toh aur kaun kaun se musicians the jinke saath aapke Pitaji ka uthna baithna tha? Jinhone aapne bachpan se dekha hoga? ( So who were the other musicians who were familiar with your father? Who would have seen in your childhood?)
CR: Kishen Maharaj bole toh. Gangubai Hangal, Bhaire Bua, Bhaskar Bua phir Agra gharane waale sab log aake yahan baith the yahan. Azim Khan ( not audible) Pitaji Amir Khan Saab kya... bahut saare abhi ka bhool gaye sab log woh time apun dikhaya tha mein naam woh bhi bhool gaya main abhi
( Kishen Maharaj, Gangubai Hangal, Bhaire Bua, Bhaskar Bua then the Agra gharana people they would all come here. Azim Khan (not audible) his father, Amir Khan Saab... a lot of people now I have forgotten I had shown you the names I have forgotten even those.)
SS: Toh yeh sab jo Bambai ke bahar se aate the toh Bambai mein kahan rehte the? Kahan pe baithak hoti thi? ( So all these people who came from outside India where did they stay in Bombay? Where did all the baithak's happen?)
CR: Bambai mein woh time pe kya hota tha itne Mussalman Kalakar the woh log woh sab Gangabai ke yahan rehte the. Gangabai hai. Congress House. ( At that time in Bombay there were a lot of Muslim artists they would all stay at Gangabai's. Congress House)
SS: Congress House
CR: Wahan rehte the...woh aurat bahut devi thi woh bai. Apna kabhi uske andar yeh dekha nahi woh ladies ne... woh Nepal ki thi. Singh mein se thi woh... magar kuch ho gaya is liye yahan aayi woh iske andar
( They would stay there... that woman was a goddess. She didn't ever think about.... she was from Nepal. She was a Singh but something happemed and she came here into this.)
TN: Woh bhi gaati thi na? ( She was a singer too?)
CR: Gaati thi? aarey bhai pucho mat kabhi kabhi Khan Saab uske paas sikhte Gangabai ke paas sikhte the. Aise hai woh bahut bahut usko aisa karne ka... karna chahiye apun log... bahut devi thi woh. Magar kaam uska woh tha gaane ka magar woh time pe gaane ki izzat thi woh time pe, abhi sab log abhi gaana sunte dusri nazar se dekhte hai. Nazar dusri ho jaati hai un log ki woh nazar nahi hai. Sangeet ki devi samaj ke nahi karte woh log woh toh apna mann behelao kuch... woh chaddar kya bolte hai waise abhi ka gaana aisa ho gaya hai abhi wahan kothe ke upar.
( Oh don't ask about her singing. Sometimes Khan Saab used to learn from her from Gangabai. That's how she was she did a lot... we should be like her she was a goddess. But her job was that of a singer at that time singing had a lot of respect nowadays people look at these women differently. Their perspective has changed about this. It's not the same they don't consider it as goddess of they want to entertain them... these days the songs are like that at the courts.
Par un log ko izzat milti thi woh gaane kuch... apne yeh iske andar Begum Akhtar kisi ki shaadi huyi toh wahan gaane ko aate the stage pe bakaida unka stage alag rehta tha aur bakaida sab log sunne ko wahan baith te the. Bhatia, Lohana sab log gulab ka phool nahi leke baithte the aise chup chaap sunne ke hisaab se sunte the woh log. Woh mahol bahut alag hi tha. Woh pin drop tha woh time shaadi ke andar bhi pin drop koi awaaz bhi nahi kare. Abhi kya dhaam dhoom chalu sab programme chalu ho gaya. Woh time pe nahi tha. Un log ki izzat thi bahut izzat thi aur main bachpan mein...Aur main bachpan mein Allakhibai thi Foras road pe gaanewali
( They would get a lot of respect in this... Begum Akhtar would sing at people's weddings she would have a separate stage and people would actually sit and listen. All kinds of people Bhatia, Lohana they would not sit with roses they would sit quietly and listen. That ambience was different. It used to pin drop silence even during a wedding no one would make any noise. Nowadays it's all noise for all programmes. We didn't have this back then. They got respect a lot of respect and when I was young.... there was a singer Allarakhibai at Foras raod.
SS: Allakhi bai?
CR: Allarakhibai...Alla rakha nahi, Allarakhibai... uske paas Shama ladki rehti thi. Aur tabla deve mereko ja udhar ja aapi aao tablu, woh bachpan se mujhe training mile hai woh Foras road ki. Jao, ma hamesha kya tame kyan moklocho kyun bhejte ho udhar ladka kharab ho jayega. Mere saath Hari, Sanjeev Kumar woh bhi. Mujhe woh bolta hai mereko Chandu bhai mujhe ganda dekhna ka hai yaane deewani mujhe dekhne ke hai woh time mein chote chote natak mein kaam kar raha tha woh time pe deewana dekhne ka mereko kaise deewane rehte hai.
( Allarakhibai not Alla rakha, Allarakhibai... there was a girl called Shama there. They would ask to go and give the tabla there, I got training for Foras road since my childhood. Go, my mother would always say, why are you sending him there the boy will have bad influence. With me was Hari, Sanjeev Kumar. He would tell me Chandubhai I want to see crazy people. He used to work in small plays at the time I want to see people who are crazy about this.)
Baba dekh ek kaam kar uska fata hua shirt pehen le tu. Woh Bhuleshwar mein rahta hai hum bhi pehle Bhuleshwar mein rehte the wahan se hum dono dost log aur Hari mere se 6 mahine-saal bada tha. Woh bhi do tabla uthave chalte chalte Foras road jaave. Tabhi woh time pe baba Pitaji mere ek rupaiya dete the tram ka. Dus paise ki tram thi ek anna... ek anna ki tram Colaba se leke Mahim tak, Dadar tak jaave ek aane mein.
( I told him wear a torn shirt. He used to live in Bhuleshwar we also lived there earlier and from there the two of us friends and Hari was a six months or a year older than me. He would carry two tabla's and we would go walking to Foras road. At that time my father would one rupee for the tram. The tram would cost 10 paise one anna... one anna for the tram from Colaba to Mahim and you could go upto Dadar in one anna.)
Magar hum ek rupaiya bachate the woh time pe. Phir wahan jaake tabley dete the. Main bola Hari dekh le yeh sab deewane baithe hai. Bole ha Chandubhai. Allarakhi bai pehchan te hai, Chandubhai kaun hai yeh? Kalakar? Ha hai woh natak mein thoda sa kaam... dikhta hi aisa phir baad mein bole beta tu yahan aa ja tereko deewani dekhne hai na milega sab. Raat ek ek do do baje aate the Foras road sab sunne ko yeh seth log. Pe ke begair peeye huye sab masti mein rehte the woh hi kaam usko Khilona mein kaam laga usko. Woh kaam usne deewane ka kaam usne Khilona mein banaya usne.
( But we would save that one rupee. We would go and give the tabla's. I said Hari, look these are all the crazy people who sit here. He said yes Chandubhai. Allarakhibai recognised, Chandubhai who is this? Artist? I said yes, he acts a little in plays... he looks like that and she said, son you come here you want to see crazy people who will find them here. They would come at 1 or 2 in the night to listen, all these rich people. Some would be drunk some not everyone used to be in good spirit that's what helped him in Khilona the act of being a crazy person he used it in Khilona.
Khilona picture aaya tha na. Mumtaz aur yeh Sanjeev wahin Birla mein uska satkar hua main kuch kaam ke hisaab se wahan gaya tha main Hari ko mila nahi. Usne stage pe dekh liya ay Chandrakantbhai... Chandubhai Mewada bola tabla wala bola tabhi wahan stop ho gaya. Chandrakant... Chandubhai bahut hai yahan tablawala koi bhi hoga phr main wahan stop ho gaya. Phir usne stage pe bulaya jo Khilona ka kaam maine kiya hai yahan, yeh Chandubhai ki badaulat hai woh mujhe bachpan mein yeh hum Chandubhai dono dost the aur hum Foras road jaate the, Pavan Pul jaate the yeh wahan sab seth log yeh gaadi leke aate the ghoda gaadi mein yeh deewane ke hisaab se aate the apni aurat ko chod ke... sab log ko chan chan aur yahan gaana sunte woh time pe woh aaj mujhe khilone mein kaam laga.
(The movie Khilona which had released with Mumtaz and Sanjeev . He was felicitated in Birla I had gone there for some work but I didn't meet Hari but he saw me on the stage he called out Chandrakantbhai... Chandubhai. He called me Mewada and then he called me tablawala that's when I stopped. There were many Chandrakant and Chandbhai even the tabla guy could be anyone that's when I stopped he called me on the stage. He said the work that I did in Khilona is thanks to Chandubhai we friends as kids and we would go to Foras road and Pavan Pul (Bridge) all these rich people would come with their horse carriages they could come leaving theor wives behind... they would come here to listen to music here and this helped in Khilona )
Yaani kalakar log bhi wahan aate the Naushaad miyan bhi wahan aate the Madan Mohan bhi wahan aate the. Shama bhi bahut acchi gaane wali acchi Foras road ki abhi nahi hai woh uske yahan bhi. Ek time kya hua malum mujhe wahan Naushad sahab wahan baithe hai main Punjabin Jodharan ke yahan baitha tha aisa tabla diya aur yeh apne bamboo silk coat pehen ke gaya tha wahan tie bi laga ke.
( A lot of artists came there Naushad also came there, Madan Mohan also came there. Shama was a good singer from Foras road shes's no more now even at her place. Once it so happened that I knew Naushad was there at Punjabi Jodharan's place and I was sitting there I went to give the tabla I was wearing a bamboo silk coat and a tie.)
Bola Ammaji tabla rakha udhar peeche wahan pe bole, ha beta aao baith baith idhar main kaho Ammaji Punjabi bola Jodharan mujhe Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam itna sunna tha aapke gale se. Naushad ke kaan tight ho gaye aarey kahan ka Barkat Ali Khan Saab ka, Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam woh mujhe sunao ek main jata hoon abhi do minute ke andar.
( I said Ammaji, I kept the tabla behind she said yes son come sit here I said, Ammaji I want to hear Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam in your voice. Naushad became very alert Barkat Ali Khan Saab's, Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam I want to hear that I will leave in two minutes.)
Naushad bole, Punjaban yeh kaun ladka hai? Umar uski 17 saal ki hai woh aapko farmaish kar liya? Kya hai ladka kaun hai? Madan Mohan baju mein baitha tha ghazal mereko sunne ki thi bole, yeh ladka hai apne ladke ke barabar hai magar kabhi mood mein aaye toh bol deta hai mujko mujhe gaana sunana padta hai woh ghazal sunane padti hai mereko usko ek pyaar se main suna dete hoon suko. Aur Barkati Khan Saab Ki Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam Barkati Khan Saab ki thi woh recording.
( Naushad said, Punjaban who is this boy? He must be 17 and he requested a song from you? Who is this boy? Madan Mohan was sitting next to me and I wanted to hear the ghazal she said this boy is like my son sometimes when he's in a good mood he says something and I have to sing for him... I have to sing the ghazal for him and I sing for him with love. It was Barkati Khan Saab's recording Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam.
Phir Naushad ko bataya woh Punjaban ne yeh Ramjibhai ke bete hai jo tabla banate hai uska beta hai yeh. Tabhi yeh bolta hai ke, Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam, manna padega baith baith beta mere baju mein. Abhi mera ho gaya kaam main jata hoon abhi yahan se. Nahi nah,i Naushad bole tum yahan se baitho tum yahan se aadha ghanta mere saath mein Haribhai woh Chandubhai baith jao abhi itne bade bade hasti bolte hai, apne ko ghar bahar hi jaane ka hai ghumne ko jaane ka hai na abhi? Taxi mein ghoom ke Chowpatty idhar udhar raat ko ghoomenge Malbar Hill.
(Then Punjaban told Naushad that he's Ramjibhai's son who makes tabla. That's why he's saying Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam you have to give it to the boy come son sit here. I have finished my work I will leave now. No no, Naushad said you sit here for half an hour and with me was Haribhai he said Chandubhai sit down such stalwarts are asking us. We only have to go roaming right? We'll go in a taxi to Chowpatty here and there at night to Malbar Hill.)
Ek baad mein ki baat hai yeh (not sure). Aisa kya tum yahan pe baitho jayenge phir baad mein ghar pe. Abhi taxi mein janeka hai apne ko.
(What's the big deal you sit here now we'll go home later. We'll go in a taxi.)
Phir jo unhone ke ek cheez batayi hai... wah wah Punjaban Jodhani ne yeh sab gaanewale jo sangeetkar bhi hai woh wahan aate the sunne ke liye unhe uske andar kuch milta tha unlog ko. Aise hi wahan aate nahi the timepass karne ke liye. Jara bhi usko bhi kuch cheez milti thi usko.
( And then the songs she presented... Punjaban Jodhan all these singers and musicians they would come there to listen they would get something from it. They didn't come there for timepass. They got something form there.)
Abhi kisi ka abhi Naushad ka picture hoye uske andar classical base hoga hi uske andar Madan Mohan dekho uska classical base hai uske andar ghazal, thumri base hai uske andar nahi hai nai hai uska manna padega.
(If you see Naushad's movies it will definitely have a classical base, if you see Madan Mohan it will have a classical base ghazal and thumri. Not that it won't have it will you have to give it to them. )
Woh phir baad mein (not clear) Punjabi yeh music director yeh line alag hai woh line alag hai. Bole beta tune baat accha cheda hai acchi chedi baat tune bole sab yahan hi aate hai woh sab yahan se apne tune leke jaate hai yahan se woh juni juni tu aaj bata diya hai mereko Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam woh Khusru ka Pakistan ka ghazal aur farmaish kiya hai woh bhi maine suna hai yeh toh teri janam ke pehle suna hai... bol diya Naushad maine meri shaadi... apna.. kaunse saal mein 40 ke yeh jo tum bolta hai na Pakistan ki gaanewali 40 ke pehle guzar gayi woh Khan Saab Bade Khan Saab gaate the humare dukaan pe tabhi mere dhyaan mein aaya aaj main bol diya madam ko.
(Then later (not clear) Punjabi music director this is different from that he said son you have brought up an interesting topic he said everyone comes here and everyone borrows their tunes from here it's an old trick you have told me today about Ka Karoon Sajani Aye Na Baalam that was a ghazal by Khusru from Pakistan and you requested for that song I sang for you. These songs were there before you were born...Naushad asked when were you married... born in 40' this singer from Pakistan that you mentioned she passed away before the 40's Khan Saab, Bade Khan Saab used to sing that song at our shop that's how I remembered it and I asked madam to sing )
SS: Toh Foras road pe aur kaun the jo gaate the jo bahut mahan gayak hai? ( Who were the other great singers at Foras road?)
CR: Arrey mahan sab log mahan the wahan ek bhi... sab log mahan ko bhi room jao sab mahan hi mahan the. Magar kisi ki irsha nahi karte the woh log sab behene jaisi rehti thi wahan kabhi kisi grahik ko ched khaani nahi koi table waale bhi koi ched khaani kare koi wahan naji jara bhi nahi uski izzat karte the jo gana sunne ko aate the uski izzat hoti hai... woh aju baju mein.
( Everyone was great over there each one... everyone was great you go into any room everyone was great. No one was jealous of the other they were all like sisters they never misbhaved with any customer no tabla guy ever mishbehaved they would repsect the ones who came to listen... they would respect them
TN: Roz gaate the kya? ( They would sing everyday?)
TN: Roz gaate the kya? ( They would sing everyday?)
CR: Ha roz.. bahut nek kaam karte the woh log sab vyapaari thak ke jaate the toh kahan apna yeh... wahan jaake dil behela lete the woh Bhatia, Lohana aurtein gaana gaati nahi thi unko gaane ka shauk wahan sunte the phir vaapis. Magar woh bura kaam nahi karti thi woh... jo abhi bura kaam hoti hai woh nahi karti thi woh. Jo jaate the woh ma, behen ke hisaab se uske gaana sunte the woh log. Ben mane aa samdhao, aa samdhao woh aisa karte the woh gaana (not clear) bahut izzat thi woh time pe abhi izzat nahi hai.
( Yes, everyday... they did a worthy job all the businessmen after a long day would go there to unwind and feel good. The Bhatia and Lohana women did not sing and the men were fond of music they would listen over there and go back. But they did not do bad things there whatever bad things happen now they didn't do that. The people who went to listen treated the women like their mothers and sisters. They would ask them Ben ( sister) I want to listen to this, can you sing this for me. That's what they did.... there was a lot of respect now there's no respect. )
SS: Par aapko naam yaad hoga kisi jo Foras road pe the? ( Would you remember the names who were from Foras road?)
CR: Allarakhibai, Punjaban Jodharan aur bahut saari thi abhi yaad nahi. Ab meri bhi 73 umar ho gayi hai. Jo cheez nahi hai wahan uska hum kya karenge. Abhi latest mein uske andar Shama thi ek gaanewali woh street singer thi raste pe ghoomti thi woh Allarakhibai ne usko goadh le liya bheek mangti thi woh raste pe gaana gaati thi naachti thi usko le liya usko gaana sikhaya. Phir usko sab pura property Shama ko de diya usne aisi apni bacchi bol diya na khatam baat. Woh log shaadi nahi karte the. Shama ne bhi shaadi nahi kiya. Nahi yaani nahi. Yeh Khilona hua na Mumtaz Shama ke paas sikhi hai kaisa baithna uthna taur tarika. Gaana kaise kisi ke ghar mein jaate ho woh uske taur tarika Shama ne usko sikhaya.
(Allarakhibai, Puanjaban Jodhran there were many but I can't remember now. I'm 73 now. The thing that is not there what can we can't do anything about it. The latest there was a singer called Shama she was a street singer she would walk around the streets and Allarakhibai adopted her she used to beg, sing and dance on the streets she trained her in singing. Later all the property was given to Shama because she was now her daughter. They would not get married. Shama also didn't get married. No meant no. For Khilona Mumtaz was trained by Shama the body language etc. Singing when you go to someone's house Shama taught her all that.)
SS: Par yeh sab jo the kahan se aaye honge? Dharwad side se ya Lucknow side se? jo sab gaati wahan pe toh kahan se thi woh ( But where were all these women come from? Were they from Dharwad side or Lcuknow side? All the ones who sang there where were they from?)
CR: Yeh bhi subject accha kiya aapne. Lucknow side ki hai, koi Ajmer se aaye the koi Delhi se aaye the koi Benaras se aaye the. Gangubai Hangal toh yahan ki hi thi woh kothe pe naho thi woh gharandas thi. Mogubai Kurdikar woh bhi gharandas. Hirabai Barodekar woh bhi gharandas thi.
( This is also a good subject. They were from Lucknow, some were from Ajmer, someone had come from Delhi, some from Benaras. Gangubai Hangal was from here she was not a courtesan she was from a gharana so was Mogubai Kuridikar even Hirabi Barodekar was from a gharana. )
Magar shauk gaane ka apne kabile ghar baar sambhal ke... magar acchi aurat
But they were fond of music. They managed their homes and families... but these were good women.)
Phir Babubhai Banker the unki aurat Anjanibai Lolekar uska beta Sai Banker jo tabla bajate hai woh. Woh Lal Mill ka malik tha Babubhai Banker, Anjanibai Lolekar ke husband second biwi thi, woh the Ahmedabad ke uske saath Mill thi Laal Mill Ahmedabad mein woh race ke ghode the Babubhai Banker ke yahan race ke itna shaukin tha woh Abjopati woh time ke. Woh mere Pitaji ke dost.
( Then there was Babubhai Banker and his wife Anjanibai Lolekar their son Sai Banker who plays the tabla. He was the owner of Lal Mills Babubhai Banker. Anjanibai's husband she was the second wife he was from Ahmedabad he had 7 mills Lal Mills in Ahmedabad he had race horses he was quite fond of it. He was like a millionaire of that time. He was my father's friend.)
Jabi bhi Ahemdabad mein jaave 6 seater ki gaadi leke aa jaave woh time humare paas bhi 6 seater ki gaadi thi Null Bazar mein. Vasantbhai Kothak ke Pitaji bhi woh bhi mere baba ke, Vasantbhai mera dost uske Pitaji mere Pitaji ke dost. Kothak parivar bole toh apna Rajkot ke diwan the unke ladke. Woh teacher, director Vasantbhai woh bhi mar gaye bichare Rajnibhai mera friend.
( Whenever we went to Ahmedabad he would bring a 6 seater car even we had a6 seater car in Null Bazar. Vasantbhai Kothak's father was friends with my father. Vasantbhai was my firend and his father was my father's friend. The Kothak family was the diwan of Rajkot his son. Teacher, director Vasantbhai, he too passed away Rajnibhai was my friend.)
(not clear) Rahman Miya hero, yeh humara group tha ek time pe.
(Not clear) Rahman Miyan hero, this was our group at one point.)
Ritz hotel mein jaake baith te the. Magar bhai tum woh lo mereko lassi ayegi warna woh uska plain sherbet aayega mera. Woh nahi peeoonga main. Ha woh log mana karte the nahi nahi Chandubhai aap baitho humare saaath sabke umar main chota unke andar magar leke jaate the ghumne ko chalo Chandubhai yeh dekho, yeh bol, yeh bolo unke saath mein main matlab 5-6 foreign bhi ghoom ke aaya hoon.
( We would go to the Ritz Hotel. They would drink and I would order lassi our I would have juice. But I wouldn't drink (alcohol). But they would tell me drink with them. I was the youngest among them. But they would take me along on their trips/ Let's go Chandubhai see this, let's talk aout this. I went abroad some 5-6 times with them as a kid.)
Bacche ke hisaab se magar paisa apna lagta tha woh time pe unka paisa nahi jara bhi nahi woh time humara business bhi accha tha aur abhi bhi hai. Abhi maine kam kiya abhi umar ho gaya. Abhi kya karne ka kiske ke liye?
( Like their son... but we would take care of our expenses not take their money not at all at that time our business was good. Even now it's good. Now I have reduced the work because I have become old. What's the point now, for whom?)
Dono ladke bolte hai abhi Pappa kya karne ka hai aaram karo. Abhi aaram karunga apna dukaan ka chalne ke liye toh mangta hai na mereko. Bole hum log dete hai na mahine ka 20,000 -25,000 nahi nahi abhi nahi mangta hai mereko jabhi meri halat hogi tabhi tumhare khande pe aaram karoonga tab tak nahi karoonga.
( Both my sons say Pappa why do want to this now just rest. How can I rest I want the shop to run. But we give money every month 20,000- 25,000 I don't want it now when I am in bad state I will rest on your shoulders till then I won't. )
Yeh zidd hai yeh kaam apna khurak hai haddi ka woh nahi karoonga main apang ho jaoonga. Apang yaani ekdum last stage ke upar mereko nahi chahiye woh. Woh apangpana abhi mera chota bhai gujar gaya na do mahine pehle usne kaam chod diya 5 saal se. Ekdum apang ho gaya kuch dimaag nahi kuch nahi yeh nahi aisa. Mujhe woh stage mujhe jaaneka nahi hai kuch na kuch karoonga dukaan ke andar.
( I'm stubborn about it. This work is a dose for my bones if I don't do this I'll be crippled. Crippled as in it will be my last stage and I don't want that. I don't want to be crippled my younger brother passed away 2 months back he stopped doing any work for the last 5 years. He was a like a crippled his mind wouldn't work. I don't to be in that state. I'll do something within the shop.)
Kuch na kuch chahiye mereko toh majja aati hai jeevan ke andar. Sangharsh chahiye apne ko. Sangharsh bina kuch jeevan nahi hai. Sangharsh hona chahiye, pyaar hona chahiye sab ke liye accha hai. Aur niti niyam ko acche rakho sab log toh sab kuch bhagwaan de deta hai apne ko. Aap aaye pehli baar dono jan baitho bhagwaan jo athithi aate hai mehmaan ke hisaab se hum log unko puchte hai. Aap log sab humare bhagwaan ho. Aap baithe hai paani piya bahut accha laga mereko.
( I need something to do then life is fun. You need some struggle. Life is nothing with struggle. Struggle should be there, there should be love it's good for everyone. Everyone should keep some rules and God gives everything. You both have come here for the first time... sat... we treat our guests like God. You are all like God to us. You sat, had water I felt very good.)
TN: Idhar toh log toh aate the na gaanewale toh idhar bhi gaate the kya? Dukaan pe( People came here right so did they also sing here? At shop? )
CR:Ha... Arre wah pucho mat kabhi kabhi raat bhar chalu rahta programme kaam baaju mein 8 baje dukaan bandh. Phir baba naake pe jaye mithai ka do kilo ka pede ka mithai le aave. Yeh Abid Hussain wale ki baat karta hoon Janjira waal. Arre usne toh bahut majja kar diya. Woh andar baithe raat ko 9 -10 baje aur Ramji naya towel nava dhoti nikaalo. Baba kem su thaiyu? su che? Naya dhoti nikalo naya towel nikalo. Baba ne phat se kabaat khola nayi dhoti, naya towel. Attar ki batli hai kya? Ha hai... woh time pe raat ko Azim Khan aake baith gaye idhar.
(Yes... Don't ask sometimes we would have programmes the whole night we would keep the work aside at 8o'clock the shop used to shut. Then my father would go to the corner sweeetshop and would bring a 2 kilo box. I'm talking about Abid Hussain from Janjira. He had lot of fun. He was sitting inside at around 9-10pm and said Ramjibhai give me a new towel and a new dhoti. Father asked what happened? What is it? Get a new dhoti, new towel. Father quickly opened the cupboard new dhoti, new towel. Do you have perfume? Yes, there is. At the time in the night Azim Khan was here.)
Aurangzeb , Azim Khan (not clear) ke Pitaji. Ramjibhai kya aaj scent ki gulaab ki baas aati hai? Bole Abid Khan Saab baithe hai Janjira waale, bole kya bolte ho kya kar rahe hai? Nhah rahe hai? Main haat paav daadi dho dalta hoon. Aaj hum baithenge abhi yahan apni... tabhi yeh nahi tha tabhi na sab charo baju kabaat tha. Yeh toh abhi bana liya humnein kya pura. Woh Ramakant Mhapsekar bhi aaya tha dubla patla picture line mein bajata hai woh.
( Aurangzeb, Azim Khan (not clear) his father. Ramjibhai I can smell rose perfume, what is it today? He said Abid Khan Saab from Janjira is here what are you saying what is he doing? Having a bath? Even I should wash up. Today we'll sit here... that time this wasn't there there cupboards on all four sides. I have made this now. Ramakant Mhapsekar was also there thin guy who used play (tabla) in films.)
Sab log baithe hai Jaikishan khada reh gaya udhar, Ramjibhai kya hai? Bole kuch nahi sab Khan Saab log baithe hai main sunta hoon. Usne driver ko gaadi bhej diya chalo bhaago yahan se. Woh yahan ote pe baitha Jaikishan. Phir aaya naah dhoke agarbatti lagayi bhagwaan ko, diya lagaya andar diya lagaya Khan Saab ne prathana ki aur yahan baith gaye ekdum.
( Everyone was Jaikishan was standing there, Ramjibhai what's happening nothing the Khan Saab's are sitting I'll listen. He told tje driver to go back. Jaikishan was sitting on the corridor. Then he came after his bath and lit an incense stick to God, he lit a lamp, inside he lit a lamp Khan Saab he prayed and he sat down here.
Aur uske saamne Azim Khan (not clear) bole Khan Saab baba bole kya kar rahe ho? Ladka bajyega na Ramakant Mhapsekar nahi nahi main bajoonga woh kya bajyega? Aaj Azim Khan yeh sun le Amir Khan Saab. Abid Hussain aaj mujhe mere haath mein mil gaya hai. Usko main dhoonta tha aaj tumari dukaan mein mil gaya Amir Khan Saab aaj bole rehne do baith ne do usko.
And opposite him was Azim Khan (not clear) my father asked Khan Saab what are you doing? This boy will play Ramakant Mhapsekar no, no I'm going to play what will he play? I want Azim Khan and Amir Khan Saab to listen. Abid Hussain has come to us I was looking for him I found him at your shop Amir Khan Saab said let him sit today.)
TN: Aur Taanpura bhi the? Taanpura? ( There were Taanpuras too? Taanpura?)
CR: Madhubhai se mangwa liya baju mein Fanaswadi mein unki class. Do taanpure aa gaye. Baithe... Bhatiyar chalu kiya do-adhai baje. Kaala sheesham jaise yahan khada reh gaya Bhatiyar idhar yahan Shankarji hai. Diva chalu woh yahan khada hai. Yeh bole Azim Khan bole, beta koi aankh ko kholna mat yeh jo abhi isne timetable dekh ke raag chedha hai Bhatiyar do ke baad mein, abhi yahan uski kuch na kuch khoobsurati aayegi beta. Chandu tu aankhen mat kholna.
( We got them from Madhubhai he runs his classes in Fanaswadi. We got two taanpura's. We sat.. He started with (raaga) Bhatiyar at two-two thirty. The Bhatiyar was like black sheesham standing and there's Lord Shankar here. The lamp was on and he was standing here. Azim Khan said son don't open your eyes the time that has started raaga Bhatiyar after 2o'clock there will be some beauty to it. Chandu you don't open your eyes.)
Main unke baju main baitha tha. Yahan aaram se khada ho gaya kaala Sheesham jaisa aadmi dagina bhara hua aur haath mein gadha aisi. Amir Khan Saab bole abhi dekh lo toh ek minute dekh lo abhi main band karta hoon abhi yaani 3:30 -4:00 baje usne gaana band kar diya Bhatiyar agle morning. Woh time maaney sangeet kya hai? Sangeet yeh jo timetable deti hai woh log woh hisaab se us kaam ko hota hai.
( I was sitting next to him. He was standing here very comfortably a dark man he was wearing a lot of jewellery and he was holding a mace in his hand. Amir Khan Saab said you can see for a minute now I'll stop at around 3:30-4:00 he stopped singing the next morning. At that time what was music? The timetable that they gave music work happened according to that.)
Jo acche dil se kaam karte hai, gaana gaate hai uske avhaan karte hai apan hom mein nahi karte avhaan dete hai. Yeh karke... ahuti dete hai hom ke andar accha jo yeh hove hawan dene wala woh aadmi usko fal milta hi uska. Khan Saab ne woh humko dikha diya yahan. Tabhi umar humari hogi kuch 17-18 saal ya aisa 15 saal ke umar mein Azim Khan Saab ke baaju mein thoda aankh khola Khan Saab bole dekh le kaala admi khada hai udhar daagina pehna hua dus minute gaya sab kuch darshan usne (not clear) Khan Saab ne band kar diya woh chale gaye.
( The ones who work with a good heart, sing and call it like we do during a hom (yagna) we call the the gods. By making...oblation or offering in the hom the one who does it well he gets the fruit for it. Khan Saab showed it to us here. That time I must be 17-18 years old or 15 years old. I was sitting next to Azim Khan Saab. I opened my eyes a little Khan Saab said see there's a dark man standing there wearing jewellery he was there for 10 minutes Khan Saab stopped it he left.
Woh attar aisa lagaya na Khan Saab ne Pitaji bhi attar ke bahut shaukin gulaab, mogra, aur henna bhi rakha tha sab sab mix kar ke Azim Khan ko lagaya aur khud ko bhi laga liya. Aur wahan bhagwaan ko attar laga diya usne phir jo apne chalu kiya usne gaana. Nom Tom jo chalu kiya ke pucho mat apun angootha chaap isliye kya sangeet ke andar main bhi aisa baith gaya ek dum. Yaane apne ko hil ne yeh sab mind band kar diya humara sab ka.
( The perfume that Khan Saab was wearing my father too was find of perfume rose, jasmine and he had kept henna, everything was mixed and he put it for Azim Khan and he was wearing it too. He put some perfume on the Gods as well and then he started singing. The Nom Tom that he started don't ask because I'm illiterate about music even I was just sitting like that. One couldn't move, our minds were shut down.)
Yahan kareeban 15-20 aadmi yahan baithe the 15-20 ander baithe the ko yahan bhi bahi gaya sab aise ke aise hi baithe sab log. Woh akhri gana maine Amir Khan Saab ka suna. Jabhi indpendent hua nawab Janjira waale woh Dewas mein gaye udhar. Woh Dewas mein gaye baba unko chod ne ko Dewas gaye (not clear) aur Janjira ka nawab tha unki biwi Junagarh nawab ki thi... ladki thi aur humari ma Junagarh ki bole Chandu ko bolna mat warna mere saath ayenga wahan Dewas mein woh nawab kabhi 2 mahine 3 mahine yahan aata tha uski biwi ko leke. Leke jaate Janjira, yeh uski dain hai woh time pe Janjira mein shikar kiya tha hum log ne waagh ka patte wala woh bhi tak sambhal ke rakha hai maine.
( There were at least 15-20 people here and 15-20 people were sitting inside no one even went to the washroom. Everyone was just sitting. That was the last time I heard Amir Khan Saab. When the nawab became independent the Janjira one he went to Dewas. When went to Dewas my father went to drop him there (not clear) and the nawab of Janjira his wife was the daughter of the nawab of Junagarh... and my mother was from Junagarh. He said don't tell Chandu or he will want to come with me to Dewas. The nawab would come here for 2-3 months with his wife. He would take me to Janjira, this is his gift. We had gone tiger hunting in Janjira... striped tiger I have still kept it safe.)
Yeh shauk hai apne ko kya? Yeh Sangeet bahut hi accha hai. Sangeet bole toh tandaroosti hai apni. Tandaroosti bole jo apne andar rog hota hai na woh sab nikal jaata hai Sangeet ke andar jab sunenge na aap yeh iske andar woh sab rog nikal jaate hai cancer bole, diabetes bole sab kuch nikal jate uske andar maine aisa suna hai. Woh mere abhi tak 73 umar hai abhi mujhe ek bhi rog nahi malum nahi. Conference mein dus dus din rahta tha magar thakaan kuch nahi mereko. Aur subeh 8 se leke 8 tak baje tak phir baad mein nah room hai woh time mein do paani.. do time paani aata tha nah dhoke khana bajri ki roti aur doodh peeke main jaata tha Sangeet Sabha ke andar. Woh apni duty thi apna woh hi dimaag bas Seva kare apun sab ki paise ki apun kuch jaroorat nahi thi.
( This is a hobby. Music is very good. Music is my strength. All illness goes away when you listen to music, all the diseases will go away cancer, diabetes everything will go away that's what I have heard. I'm 73 now I don't know any illness. I used to be there in the conference for 10 days. I would never get tired. I'm here from morning 8 to evening 8 then there's bathroom earlier the water came twice a day... I would have a bath and eat my bajra roti and milk and I would go for Sangeet Sabha. That was my duty that was all in my head I wasnted to serve everyone I didn't want money. )
Pitaji kama rahe the woh time jo 10-15 mujhe kharche ke liye dete the jao, kharcha toh kharcha apna hota nahi tha sab Kalakar baithe the wahan Cocoa Cola peene ka hai? Imported Cocoa Cola laave woh log pee lo. Yaani woh time pe hum log hil mil gaye ladke ke jaise ho gaye unlogo ke saath bahut hi ladke ke jaise yaane apne aao Kishen Maharaj aa chandu idhar baithh, woh Shanta bhai udhar se bulaye, Anokhi Lal udhar se bulaye.
( My father was earning that time he would give me 10-15 rupees for my expenses, I would never end up spending any money because all the artists who would be there, you want a Cocoa Cola? They woudl get imported Cocoa Cola drink this. At that time I was like their son like Kishen Maharaj would call me and say chandu sit here, Shantabhai would call from here, Anokhi Lal would call from there.)
Begum bulave ja tu idhar aa mere paas Birla ke andar green room aaja, ha aata hoon main Amma. Begum Saheb laga ke kikam waali ah ha kasturi kimam bole toh original (not clear) kha de sab lal lal ho jaave pura... pura. Bahut maja woh din nikal gaye abhi kuch nahi hai.
(Then Begum would call and say you come here to the Birla green room, I'm coming Amma. Begum Saheb would give kasturi kimam that was the original stuff (not clear) if you ate that you would go red. It was a lot fun those days are gone now there's nothing.)
Abhi woh paan ka paun 200 rupaiye de toh bhi woh cheez milne waali nahi hai humko khaane ko... bahut hi accha tha woh time hamera. Abhi hai pan woh sab rang dhang nikal gaya sab kalakaron ka. Woh bacche ke hisaab se apne ko rakhte the. Bacche ke hisaab se. Arrey kon hai bhai chalu aao baitho cha peeyo chale jao aise bolte hai abhi Kalakar. Woh abhi nahi.
( Now even if you pay 200 rupees for that paan you won't get that thing... those days were really good. Even now it's there but it has lost its charm of the artists. They would treat me like their child. Now it's like who's it? Ha come sit, have a cup of tea and leave that's now the artists speak. Now it's not there)
Yeh cheque ke Khan Saab bhaut magaz mari karte the mere saath, de de mereko. Ammaji boli, Zakir ki ma woh nahi dega nahi abhi cheque rehne do uske paas woh rakhega aisa hi nahi toh faad ke fek dega magar tumko nahi dega. Ho gaya?
(Khan Saab troubled me a lot for this cheque, give it to me. Ammaji said Zakir's mother he won't give it to you let it be with him, he will keep it with him or he will tear it and throw it away but he won't give it to you. Are we done?)