Mumbai Music: Girish Sanzgiri
Director: Surabhi Sharma; Cinematographer: Ajay Noronha
Duration: 00:40:15; Aspect Ratio: 1.778:1; Hue: 14.835; Saturation: 0.091; Lightness: 0.236; Volume: 0.080; Cuts per Minute: 0.199; Words per Minute: 155.680
TN: Tell us about your first memories about music when did you to go your first concert? Did you listen to something maybe at home on the record player?
GS: Yes... In those times radio was the only entertainment and since 1977 I was extremely interested listening to various artists. So my first interest was you know listen to ghazals of Ghulam Ali, Mehdi Hasan and all those.
GS: So as the day progressed the same ghazals would not give me the same kind of a bliss so I said let me explore more so you know there is a popular singing called Natya Sangeet ( Drama Music) in Maharashtra. So I started listening to that also Vasantrao Deshpande, Jitendra Abhisheki, Ram Marathe etc. so even that did not suffice.
So I said what is bigger than this and what is you know that can give immense pleasure throughout your life? So, one day at about 5:30 I switched on the radio and I heard one gentleman and I was astonished at the way he was singing serene like you know the depth of (the) ocean and his voice was so fabulous.
I immediately called my aunt and.... my uncle. My aunt was a disciple of Ustad... I mean Kumar Gandharva she told me this is Ustad Amir Khan and that was the Marwa believe me that Marwa plate of Amir Khan has been rated by one of the best recordings... one of the top 5 best recordings by Pandit Ravi Shankarji and that was my first listening and I was completely taken aback. I mean if this the music then great.
TN: Were you in school at the time?
GS: No I was in... ( Cut) It's a very noisy place.
SS: The auto's ha sorry
TN: Were you in school at the time? When was your first?
GS: No I was in college I was in 12th in 77'. So 77' to 1980 I just kept on listening to music and till then I never thought that no I will go into music though I had a voice and in my early stages in the school I used to participate in music competitions and I have won a lot of medals and awards in the school but at that time I did not have the guts that you know I can be as singer or you know kind of go to some guru and learn.
GS: So after listening to Amir Khan saab I kept on listening to Bhimsen Joshi, Jitendra Abhisheki, Vasantrao Deshpande, Malikarjun, Kumarji and whatever would come in that slot of 5:30 to 6:00 on radio.
GS: And it so happened that in 1981 there was gharana sammelan and it was held at Rang Bhavan next to St. Xavier's college and on the day of Kirana...I was very much fond of you know melodious music and the artist from Kirana I really adorned (adored) them like Abdul Karim Khan Saab, Savai Gandharva, Hirabai Barodekar, Bhimsen Joshi so on and so forth.
GS: So one day my one of my colleagues who got me to you know learn from Dasturji was friend called Nyanraj Wagh who use to live at Chowpatty. So he told me that if you are really interested in Kirana you have to hear the best, you have to hear the best artist.
GS: I just said what is the best artist? So he says, today evening Pandit Firoz Dastur is performing at Rang Bhavan why don't you come? So I went there, first I don't know who was singing some lady was singing after that Ustad Niaz Ahmed, Faiyaz Ahmed Khan Saab sang they were the Khalifa's of the Kirana so they transended from Abdul Karim Khan's lineage and when I heard Dasturji completely shocked. Can music be so serene and so melodious? and by that time when I heard I had Amir Khan Saab he has passed away and in 77' and I heard Amir Khan Saab and he has passed away in sometime in 72 okay.
So this was the same music that came from Dasturji I heard Chandramukhi a self-composed raaga of Dasturji. It's a combination of Chandrakauns and Kaushik Ranjani. I was impressed so I asked him can I learn under him? he says, yes but he teaches at that time at the university club house. Have you been there?
GS: University Club house is another ( maybe you can cut this)
GS: University Club house is the platform where lot of singers have been you know....taught and they have become... one of them is me. So, I went to him he says now that the academic career has started you please come in next year, who the administrative staff told me so I.... again kept on pursuing music I was listening listening and I was eager to listen to him again and again so in the begining of 1982 before I could go to the University he had another programme at sen... sorry Bhartiya Vidya Bhavan
and the time was last slot 11:30 onwards and we had just gone out for tea by the time we could enter he had started raaga Darbari and it was still better than what I heard at the gharana sammelan and he started somewhere at 11:30 and the programme went on till 1, though was a restrction for me to return home at a paticular time I just you know did not bother and it was absolutely astonishing.
I cannot forget that Darbari even after learning from him for last 25 years. So the first impression of his quality of music and the tonal quality was so impressive that still. Then I decided no I have to learn music from him, then again I approached he said okay now in the month of June you can come a test.
So I went there for a test and I don't know whether I really passed or not but he could see the love in my eyes for music and for his own gayaki and there were other examiners like Dasturji was there, Ashok Ranade was there, Govindrao Agni was there then Jal Balaporia was there so it is the choice of the teacher if my gayaki matches any one of them I have to be under that, and it was very clear right from begining if I wanted to learn at the University I would learn from Dasturji only.
So that was the year 1983 and I started learning from him. Everyday after the office...everyday after the office I would you know kind of go there and learn from him and he would take me the last. My item was the last. So say about 6:30 to 7o'clock and all that and I was such a novice that you know I was shy of singing in front of others who were two or three years you know senior to me and they had backgorund of music I did not have any background of music. I had not learnt by then from anybody so he said doesnt matter I understand and he started teaching me after every student went.
and it happened for 2 years then you know I used to... he used to stay at Grant Road where you know and I used also stay at Grant Road in between Grant Road and Charni Road so you know I used to accompany home or drop him and then sort of come back and it developed a temendous friendship. So one day he asked me are you interested in the degree or the certificate this university gives or you are really interested in music. I said I want music.
So he says stop coming here you come home I was thrilled. The joy did not know any bounds and he said okay let's start from this Saturday so I discontinued at the university and I started learning from him. The music at home was completely different because it was one to one relation with a student though it was a one to one relation.
TN: You were telling us that the quality of teaching and learning was different in the house then...
GS: So what happened is at University you know there was time slot 20 minutes or you know 25 minutes and there was no chance of you know of doing one particular piece again and again even if it was wrong, because the University would start at you know 5 and they would close down at 7 or 7:30 so there was you know administrative hassels so that's the reason he said come home, come means what?
If one variety would go wrong there and there he would tell me just brush it up for 100 times. He would go inside, so that is called a specialised training. Once you master that piece where you went wrong 100 times in front of such a great master. I mean I just cannnot imagine if somebody can teach like that now. I'm sure there would be somebody but I have not heard this. So that was the way you know personalised teaching happened and believe me my first raaga was Yaman and it went on for 3 years.
Every day that Yaman was different everyday the teaching inside that Yaman was completely different and..... once after a year or so I asked him you know. By then we had become great pals and there was no kind of a fear he was a very sober and aoft person, so I said you know, why are you continuing only with Yaman for such a long time? So he said, you know Ek sado toh sab sado you just know one raaga of Shuddha swaraj and you have to know just another raaga of Komal swaraj that's the end of gayaki.
Then he told me when I have... I learnt under Savai Gandharva my tutelage for only three and a half to four years and he used to just come and do one raaga at a time for a year probably he has learnt four raagas out of which one is Todi and Puirya and Multani and I don't know all the favourites
so he said I have just learnt one raaga from Savai Gandharva and that's it. He says guru's job is to give you an insight of what is there in Khayaal gayaki that's it. Stock can be collected later on and I realised that after three years and you don't know when you get the gayaki and when you can sing. It's a divine completely divine act. So you just go on doing as the guru says but your inner soul has to be there ha, I mean you just can't say you know I'm coming to you and I've not gathered so the fact is your inner soul has to be in music.
TN: Tell us something about his teaching practice? Did he make you do Alankaar's? did he make you...
GS: No Alankaar's
TN: Nothing at all
GS: No Alankaar's his initial stages he would tune up the tanpura and give it in a student's hands and start teaching and he used to keep a baya that is you know tabla's partner baya and he used to himself play the rhythm and he would sing the raaga that you want to learn or you have to learn from senior student it would go on to for about 3 to 4 months and for a junior it will be from one year to three years okay? And that's it
Now Alankaar's of the particular raaga would come when we would go to the Bol Taan's and the Taan's and the alaap's. In alaap if the student doesn't know what is going wrong then he would show you... show the sargam ke this is the sargam and this is how you should sing which is what is being done even with my students okay.
So that's how the pratical.. now alankaar's and you know that mugging up happens only when you are into a theoritical examination in practical music singing there is no alaankar part of a thing. Though it's a must and student's should know and you know all those students who get stuck at certain point ke how do I proceed or do I go ahead then the alankaar's play and the sargam plays an important role
GS: Practically sargam is shown when you do the taan patterns okay. So after 3 years I started accompaning him on tanpura without singing ha so my first opportunity was I think in the year.. sorry... in the year 1985 when it rained very very, very heavily in Mumbai sometime in July and his performance was at NCPA and only one student could come at that was Dr. Tulpule because he had a car and I could go along with him because I used to stay next to him. So he says today you will have to sit behind the tanpura I was so scared. So I said guruji don't make me sing, Ya ya he says ya I know that but if you feel like singing you sing.
and you know so he started with raaga Yaman and at the end of Yaman before you know he could touch the antara he just looked at me and I felt so confident that I also started singing and he laughed at me. So you know...
TN: Which bandish was this?
GS: ummm... Tum Par Main Kurbaan so that was the bandish and though he had not taught that bandish to me at that point but you know when a guru is singing you know what the words are lyrics and after having spent 3 years you know what the style of singing is and then you know that was a first I can't forget that mehfil because that was the first oppourtunity when I started you know accompaning him.
after that my progress was tremendous and in the year 1987 I think I was a full fleged singer and I had a friend at that time Dr. Trilok Telang so he heard me once with guruji singing and said Girish you are accomplished now why do you don't you perform I said, no yaar I think I should wait for 2-3 more years you know to kind of perform so he says, don't worry you perform at my home. I said that's fine let me come
GS: So he organised me and another senior disciple of my guruji and that concert went out so well my guruji was completely you know impressed and when I started the music I did not have an intention to become a professional singer. So he says after listening to this programme I advise you that you should be a professional singer.
So now you practice at least twice the amount of efforts that you are putting in now and start singing. So that was a complete boost and a turn around in my time so I cant even forget my first concert that was at Sion with Dr. Trilok Telang and then I started accompaning guruji everywhere he would go. I have accompanied him upto UK also in 1995 so that's how... and your music progresses not only from learning with one guru but you have to listen to all the contemporary guru's and their students and you have to make a benchmark.
GS: Benchmarking in music is the most important thing you can't get carried away by your talent there are certain aspects in music which you are own guru may not cover and you have to learn from others and after having learnt from such a great master for 5 years you know what to do on your ownself so initially whenever guru tells you to do something you should do that without asking him why because when you master that you know what why he has told you.
So that's how you know and after 87' then I started performing on my own. Started collecting lot of bandish's lot of recordings I have a huge collection of guruji and whenever the tution was not there I would go in the nights and spend nigth's with him maybe we used to have dinner we used to go for movies together and at that point of time, he would give tips if we knew that I have not discussed this aspect of music with him he would tell this is it you should do this, you should do that and you know that also is a teaching.
Staying with a guru is also a teaching in earlier days.. in earlier days the students used to to stay with the guru you know there was a bond of 10 to 12 years I remember when Abdul Karim Khan Saab's started he used to write a bond with the parents of the students for about 10-12 years and the students would live with him which was not possible in the current scenario and these are the kind of teachings you know so when you travel along with him, he tells you a lot when you travel into different cities you know how to capture the audience and all in Indian classical music simply learning is not important you should know how to capture the audience and win the mehfil.
So that's the you know probably a proverb very famous in Indian classical mehfil maarna. What is mehfil maarna? To capture your audience and you know there has to be a spell bound silence when you know the thing starts you know progressing.
So that's it about the learnings and you know the performing.
TN: But you continue to listen to music
GS: One sec
TN: We would like to know something about your listening experience you talked about how you listened to the radio, you didn't really talk about gramaphone records
that's another technology that's very important for people and you said you've been collecting music so there are must have been many technolgies that you must have used over the last 30-40 years to collect the music. Also where all have you watched live performances or listen to them if you could just give us sense again of the geography of that experience?
GS: Yes, Yes, yes... Yes yes.... sure
GS: So the initial recordings were made open to by my guruji himself he had lot of spool recordings and he had gramaphones collected from his childhood records and there would be session on a Sunday when he did not have a programme or he would not go out travelling you know somewhere so, he would call students like me who are interested and and he would play the gramaphone records.
The primary listenings were Abdul Karim Khan's and then Savai Gandharva and the contemporary Kirana and he had other collections also of Hirabai Barodekar, Nisar Hussain Khan's, Niaz - Faiyaz Ahmed and other contemporaries so, he opened the treasure of you know those old times masters and the recordings.
Then he had a spool recorder also. He would make me listen to Amir Khan Saab which he had his own old recordings then Balkrishna bua Kaplieshwari's old recordings and kind of things after that he said now you should not restrict only to listening to these kind of music you should go to the open mehfils and hear out and that time let me tell you there was real treasure
because you had Bhimsen Joshi, Pandit Jasraj, Kumarji, Vasantrao Deshpande, Jitendra Abhisheki and on the ladies side you had Kishori Amonkar, Prabha Atre, Parvin Sultana and those kind of things so, during those days we did not have money because we had just entered the field and we would stand in the aisles of the auditorium especially known as balconies or you know rearside of the auditorium we would stand and listen.
The.... maximum mehfils I have heard is of Bhimsenji and he was such a great performer and in a month in those days say 1983 to 1980 he must have performed at least 10 times in a month and his energy was tremendous. He would start and he would go on for at least 3 hours without a break or maybe 2 hours and then (a) break and again 2 hours so maximum mehfils I have heard is of Bhimsenji, even Gangubai Hangal phenomenal. Pandit Jasraji I have heard him a lot, Kishoritai, Prabha Atre
TN: So where the places where you used to listen to them?
GS: Yes, So places were basically auditoriums one was the Birla Sabha Graha, Birla Matoshree then Rang Bhavan, then... Laxmi Baug was one of them, Laxmi Baug was one of them and so on so forth wherever there were auditoriums. Then came the Nehru Planetorium and the NCPA and other things. NCPA came much later I think it came in 1980's or so even the Nehru Planetorium came after that so we would go there and those were the places.
There were house baithaks also for example Bhimsenji and Gangubai I have heard them a lot in the house baithaks in Westen side... I mean Central side of the town where you know Peddar road and Nepeansea road you know all these rich people. They would have huge palatious halls and darbars and the music was organised over there. They would have some concert and invite students like us so that was the biggest opportunity.
GS: And even outside Maharashtra even outside Mumbai like Pune and we would travel we would travel to Pune also. The Savai Gandharva festival which you all know is the only festival in this country or maybe in the world of Indian classical music where you know more than 15 to 20,000 people could come and stay overnight without disturbance and it's really an experience to be there and hear him out.
TN : When you used to go to these concerts what kind of audiences were there? You said there were poor students like yourself but who else was there? what kind of people?
GS: No, No it was a mix kind of audience lot of educationalist and you know big...big times singers would also come and listen to in fact you know for there were different kinds of audiences. For example instrumentalist there is a different audience for a vocalist there is a different audience ok.
Instrumental music is very simple to understand because there no words, no lyrics and the tabla players create kind of you know that atmosphere which is easily absorbed and learnt and you know enjoyed by anybody whereas in vocal you need to understand the lyrics and the language of the music and the tabla does not play that kind of an important part.
In instrumental music the tabalji along with the main instrumental player creates kind of atmosphere you know where, you know there are times that everybody enjoys and there are claps all around but it may not happen as far vocals is concerned because vocal is little serious and you cannot create that kind of a I mean atmosphere like that instrument can create.
So there were different audiences also and typically each and every big artist had a fan following whatever you say but these top notch artists like Bhimsenji, Jasraji, Kumarji our Vasantrao or anybody it was always full. I have not seen any empty audiences you know or empty halls or baithaks's for these maestro's.
TN: Were there people of all age groups?
GS: Absolutley, absolutely especially the younger age group would follow the instrumentalist like Ravi Shankarji or Ali Akbar Khan Saab, Zakir Hussain, Alla Rakha and a little senior audience was there for vocal. Of course students were also there, collegians were also there and St. Xavier's college where they would now hold a Malhar festival in which there is one item of Indian classical music one day is or 3-4 hours are slotted out for Indian Classical music so we used to attend that also. So Malhar utsav is what? It's a mixture of everthing folk dance and whatever so this the place you know where even the young crowd was there.
TN: Do you see any change now?
GS: Complete change
TN: What is the change?
GS: Umm... See all top notch artists have said that the music keeps changing every 10 years, the pattern changes when there was a time of Ustad Abdul Karim Khan the gayaki was extremely tuneful and to put in Indian word it was completely surel. So that was the story of 1930's to maybe 1940's or maybe 1945 after that the gayaki improved and it became strong.
Strong in the sense the taan patterns started flowing the sargam started flowing then came the era of Ustad Amir Khan, Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan, Kesarbai Kerkar, where you know it was more powerful and you know tilted towards taan patterns and taan gayaki. Now I see a different pattern it's not only surel full of taan's but completely a different style you know where bol taan's also and Layakari is also playing a lot.
In those days Layakari was there but iwas it was not so much as if it is now. So every 10-15 years the style of singing changes though the basic pattern remains the same. You will also find singers who are like me who are sticking to the old style of you know music but there are improvisers within the gayaki and improvisations must be there. You can't be singing the same gayaki throughout because if you are young your power of music is much more.
GS: The way... I mean the as you grow older your voice power goes down and you start tilting towards you know lighter pieces so the styles of gayaki has changed over the years if now listen to the 1933 or 1935 recordings of Ustad Khan Saheb, Abdul Karim Khan or Savai Gandharva you will find a complete difference now.
TN: So the difference is also in the audiences that's was what I was asking
GS: Yes, Yes
TN: So they ...
GS: I remember a story or my guruji used to stay... say you know in those days we used to travel with our guruji at 10 o'clock night in tonga (horse carriage) and come back with dudhwala (milkman) in the morning. So the mehfil would start at 10 o'clock in the night and it would end at about 5 after every raaga he would say there was an interval of 10-15 minutes the singer would have tea, coffee or whatever paan and other things then again restart.
In my times, I have seen mehfils, which would in Mumbai which would go on till 11- 12 or 1 and then the end of it. In Pune I have seen Savai Gandharva since 1983, where the mehfils would go on till next day morning but now what has happened is because of the government's restrictions the mehfil does not go on beyond 10 maximum 11 it's a completely set back.
So, and the living pattern of the people in Mumbai has become so bad that you know they come for a perfect time slot only. I will listen to the music from 8-9 after that I have to go back have my dinner, sleep and be prepared for tomorrow's you know work which was not there earlier... which was not there earlier and I don't know what to blame.
GS: Kuthla point rahila tar sanga ha Ameya... Kuthla point rahila tar sang. (Let me know if I have left out some point, Ameya).
Ameya: Aata young loka audience madhye ka nahi aahet asa tumhala kai vatata yetil parat asa kahi. ( Why do you think there is no young audience for this and do you they think they will come back?)
GS: Ok one point he's suggesting is why we don't find young's. I really don't know because the TV channels do not show any cultural programmes anymore which what I feel and the taste of Indian classical music is completely receding now only few where you know there is a background at home those boys and girls are you know learning from, learning Indian classical music and which is a really worry.
It's a worrisome thing that our Indian classical music is you know getting a setback. There is hardly any channel on television where you know Indian classical music... you have channels for dance and you know everything but Indian classical music there is no channel
which is really very sad and you know all of us must do something you know so that the channel starts. You have a channel which at 5o'clock in the morning who will listen in Bombay's style people don't get up at 5o'clock in the morning you know how difficult it is.
TN: We wonder if you could speak about Firoz Dastur's Saab's own training what has he told you about Savai Gandharva
TN: or the kind of experiences he must have had while learning because he must have followed the same style of teaching as that which he picked up
GS: Absolutely... Yes so according to me
GS: (no video) when my guruji was...
just 13 or 14 yeard old he started from Savai Gandharva and at that point of time Savai Gandharva is from Dharwad district and he had come to Mumbai and stayed for about 4-5 years and he used to stay at place called Khetwadi at Grant Road which was about 5-10 minutes walk from my guruji's house.
GS: He would teach him from Monday to Friday ok and Saturday-Sunday was his holiday so, he would come home and there was a kind of a hall like this once the tution would start each and every person of the house was dragged into listening to the music.
He says, that was the power of music. Everybody would live music and you know he was decribing, decribing you know as if somebody is putting a hand in your heart and pulling out that kind of a gayaki was there.... and everybody for that one particular hour would stop work and hide and listen to the music behind the curtains and during those days the ladies would not come in front and you know kind of sit down like today.
GS: So they would be behind the curtains and even the father's and the uncle's and other brothers would stand behind the curtains and listen to him and once he was in the mood there was no time even though he was contracted for one hour's teaching if he was in mood and started singing it would go on for 2 years, 2 and half years ahh sorry 2 hours to 2 and half hours so that was it...
GS: One day he had a contract at All India Radio and he had to sing raaga Gujari Todi ok.. he did not... he had the vilambit of Gujari Todi but he did not have the dhrut of Gujari Todi so he said what do I do? He went to guruji.
Guruji was sitting out, he was living in a chawl and there was a kind of a bench on which he was sitting so he went and told him, guruji mere paas Gujari Todi ki dhrut bandish nahi hai ( I don't have the dhrut bandish of Gujari Todi ) toh (so) guruji said woh Khan saab ki le lo recording mein se ( Take it from Khan's saab's recording) toh my guruji said, Guruji muhje pata nahi hai aap batado ( Guruji I don't know, you tell me) Ha ha theek hai le lo ( Yes, yes it's ok take it) there and there he started singing probably he would have done riyaaz inside the house and just come out and sat. He said the entire chawl came and stood pindrop silence. 100 people were standing to hear him teaching, that was the level of music at that time.
GS: He also told me one story. In our style there is a raaga called Desi you know in Indian classical so one day at Pune, All India Radio he had that recording of Desi guruji sang after that he went to meet his own guruji so on meeting him he just gave him a tip for about ten minutes and said that ke, humare gahrane mein Desi aise nahi gayi jaati hai is mein teevra madhyam lagake gaya jaata hai and it is called Desi Todi ten minutes teaching there and there that was the mastery.
He also told me one story of Ustad Abdul Karim Khan Saab. There was a programme organised at Blavatsky Lodge and he went about half and hour late so when he went there he saw that the Khan Saab was sitting just like this he didn't know why but when he said from that point when he came to Nishaad I understood that he had taken an open 'aa' or an open 'sa' and that was completely assimilated or mixed in that atmosphere along with tanpura's. You can't imagine what it means.
That 'sa' in akar was completely merged into the tanpura's and the audience only when he came down to Nishaad I knew that what he did. I mean this is the highest level of compliment I have ever seen or heard.
He also told me one story of Savai Gandharva he used to act in drama's so at Rang Bhavan there was some drama or wherever Khalsa college or whatever there was some drama and his voice cracked you know in one of the light music...
and there was some collegians who clapped him so the moment he got clapped he knew that this a humiliation he went back stage and he started riyaaz over there. When his voice was warm he came, sang the same padh that is the same Natya Sangeet and everytime... wherever he had cracked put a new variety and he would get now thunderous applause from audience and he took 21 applauses, 21 once more's there and there.
TN: So 21 varieties he sang?
TN: This is Savai Gandharva you are talking about?
TN: But I thought he stopped performing Sangeet natak after sometime?
GS: Yes, So that need not be recorded ha please. Can you?
SS: ya ya, no we will remove it
GS: remove it
TN: You can tell us what (not audible)
GS: I will tell you what... no no only this piece. So when Abdul Karim Khan taught him and in those days the natakwallah's (theatre people) you know they would offer more money to students who would look good, fair, and who were good singers so Savai Gandharva was attracted by one of those natakwallah's and he was lured into Natya Sangeet and all that.
So one day Khan Saab... Abdul Karim Khan Saab came to know that you know he is acting into drama's toh he lost. He lost it and said ke maine tumko yeh divya sangeet jo sikhaya ha,woh saadi pehen ke stage pe gaane ke liye dikhaya hai? Diya hai tumko? ( Is this why I taught you this divine music, for you to be on stage in a sari and sing?) He lost it completely and he said, Now onwards no I will not teach.
and then it took a gap of some 3-4 years or maybe 5 years by the time he would realise Savai Gandharva that what my guruji was really divine and I have you know brought down the level. So he took an oath today onwards I will not step into dramas and then he again started singing Indian classical and then started teaching Dasturji, Gangubai, Bhimsen and then he went to Karnataka.
GS: So only this portion you should not doesn't look good on my part to comment like this, but that's the truth.
TN: But everyone knows he was on the stage and Natya Sangeet
GS: I don't think everyone knows
TN: All of us in Karnataka know definitely
GS: Is it
TN: Ya, much written about it everyone talks
GS: But don't put it from my side
SS: No, no
TN: Alright, Sure
TN: What was the relationship between Firoz Dasturji and Gangubai and Bhimsen
GS: Oh great relationship, each of them had such a regards for each other and there was so much love every time they meet... they would meet was you know a great gathering... it was a great gathering I mean they would love each other. I mean they were professionals on their own scene but they was no competition at all. There was a literal and tremendous love between three of them.
TN: Was there any sharing of compositions and...
GS: Maybe in the younger days there was, maybe in the younger days there was. So one day you know Gangubai told me that if we have any difficulty we would go to your guruji and ask him what is this bandish and that kind of a thing. She had told me once, so in younger days yes, there was
TN: So he was a senior most?
GS: No, no age was senior most was Gangubai, then... Gangubai was born in 1913 my guruji was born in 1919 and Bhimsenji was born in 1921 or 22 I don't remember but that's it. So she was the senior most age wise but I ....probably Gangubai and Dasturji learnt at the same time maybe there was a gap of 1 or 2 years and then when he when Savai Gandharva moved to Dharwad that is Kundgol his name is Rambhau Kundgolkar so when he moved to Kundgol then he started teaching both Gangubai and Bhimsenji over there. There was a tremendous love and I have not seen that kind of a love and affection between 3 masters of a any gharana.