Interview with Jehangir: physically challenged entrepreneur and indebtee at Jagganguda, Shamirpet.
Duration: 00:18:19; Aspect Ratio: 1.778:1; Hue: 18.025; Saturation: 0.038; Lightness: 0.507; Volume: 0.160; Cuts per Minute: 0.055; Words per Minute: 84.786
Summary: The Identity project emerged as a result of our dissatisfaction at the nature of the debate that was emerging on the area of digital governance in India.
Over the past three years we have conducted numerous field visits in seven Indian states.These visits include numerous video-conversations, some short and others very long, with a diverse number of those who were involved with this entire process of participating in the emergence of a digital ecosystem of governance. These are interviews with people being enrolled into the Aadhaar programme, with district-level Panchayat and other officials, with numerous State government bureaucrats, with private enrollment representatives, representatives of various governmental services, with operators and other members of this digital workforce. Conversations are often long, spontaneous and deliberately unstructured: and the focus is mainly on a vérité style using amateur video.
Some key issues that we shortlisted for detailed inquiry were issues of migrants, both domestic and across international borders, homelessness in cities, and the financially excluded. Each of these areas was discussed in considerable detail at major public consultations held in Delhi, Kolkata, Hyderabad and Bangalore, in partnership with the CSDS, the Mahanirban Calcutta Research Group, and the Urban Research and Policy Programme Initiative of the National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore. All videos of all presentations made at these events are also available here.
CSCS also has an extensive text archives of material on the field as a whole, available on
http://eprints.cscsarchives.org.
Clip Summary: Jehangir, physically challenged resident of Jagganguda Village of Shamirpet Mandal of Ranga Reddy district, organizes a Person with Disability (PwD) Self-Help Group. He is a micro-entrepreneur and operates a small shop that includes selling kirana items and also has a photocopying unit. The family, like many other BPL households in Shamirpet, has borrowed heavily from various sources including banks, MFIs (Spandana) and informal lenders to create assets for the family. A small land holder, the family has invested in creating various assets including own house, milch animals through debt. The family invests in chit funds. In the video, he elaborates in great detail their debts, cash flows and access to various informal service providers.
INTERVIEWER: Where are you from?
Jahangir: Telenguda.
INTERVIEWER: Is your native place different?
Jahangir: No I am from here.
INTERVIEWER: All your parents live here?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Who does this house belong to?
Jahangir: It belongs to us.
INTERVIEWER: Whose name is the house in?
Jahangir: My fathers.
INTERVIEWER: How many siblings are you?
Jahangir: We are three brothers.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any sisters?
Jahangir: I had a younger sister and she passed away.
INTERVIEWER: Is your father there?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: What does he do?
Jahangir: He is a farmer.
INTERVIEWER: How much agriculture land do you own?
Jahangir: 1.5 acres
INTERVIEWER: Is it your own
Jahangir: Yes
INTERVIEWER: What is your share in this house? Do you have another property?
Jahangir: All the three of us live here. No
INTERVIEWER: Are you married
Jahangir: No
INTERVIEWER: How many rooms does this house have?
Jahangir: Four
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any businesses?
Jahangir: Yes
INTERVIEWER: Does your father do business apart from his farming.
Jahangir: No. We have two buffalos.
INTERVIEWER: Is your older brother married.
Jahangir: No sir, I am the eldest.
INTERVIEWER: How old are you?
Jahangir: 25.
INTERVIEWER: Is your mother there? Does your father look after her?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: How much have you studied?
Jahangir: I have studied till the 7th Standard.
INTERVIEWER: What about your father.
Jahangir: He is uneducated.
INTERVIEWER: What about your younger brothers.
Jahangir: One of them is in his 10th standard and the other in his 6th standard.
INTERVIEWER: Have you taken any loans from micro-finance companies like Spandana?
Jahangir: Yes, I have taken a loan from Spandana.
INTERVIEWER: How long has it been?
Jahangir: 1.5 years
INTERVIEWER: How many times have you taken a loan?
Jahangir: Just once.
INTERVIEWER: Is the loan over?
Jahangir: There is Rs.5000 left to pay back.
INTERVIEWER: What is your loan amount?
Jahangir: Rs.20, 000.
INTERVIEWER: What was the purpose of your loan?
Jahangir: I got it because I have a shop.
INTERVIEWER: Was it through a group?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Are there 5 of you in a group? Who are they?
Jahangir: Anji Reddy, Narasimha, Venkatesh and myself. Actually just the four of us.
INTERVIEWER: Why did you need the money?
Jahangir: We bought the buffalos.
INTERVIEWER: Did to take the loans for the buffalos?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did you buy one or two?
Jahangir: Just one. It costs Rs.35, 000. Out of which the I got Rs.20, 000 from the micro finance loan. The rest Rs.15, 000 I borrowed from the milk man. He supplies milk to the city. He loaned me the money. I pay him back monthly.
INTERVIEWER: Did you ask for the loan or did they give it to you?
Jahangir: They usually give. If you want to buy a buffalo they give Rs.15,000 to 17,000.
INTERVIEWER: Did he come to you.
Jahangir: We go everyday to give him the milk.
INTERVIEWER: I was asking about the micro finance people i.e Spandana.
Jahangir: They came by themselves and went around the town inquiring. They asked me if I wanted, so I said yes. So they formed the group and came by a couple of times. And then we all went and got the money.
INTERVIEWER: What is the interest?
Jahangir: Rs.1
INTERVIEWER: What is the total loan amount that your group got?
Jahangir: Rs.70, 000. Two of us got 20,000 each and the other two got Rs.15, 000 each.
INTERVIEWER: By when do you have to finish the loan?
Jahangir: 16 months.
INTERVIEWER: Do you pay monthly installments?
Jahangir: Yes. The 9th of every month.
INTERVIEWER: What’s your monthly installment?
Jahangir: Rs.1700.
INTERVIEWER: What is left?
Jahangir: Another Rs.5000. Four more months left.
INTERVIEWER: What did they tell you when they gave you the loan?
Jahangir: They said that you have to compulsorily pay every month. If you are unable to pay, your group has to contribute and pay. If you fail to pay we will come to your house and take away things. If there is a television or a bike etc. But we assured them that we will pay.
INTERVIEWER: Do you pay regularly?
Jahangir: Yes
INTERVIEWER: Have you ever defaulted?
Jahangir: Yes, once I defaulted for two months. I my buffalo did not yield any milk. So I had no money to pay.
INTERVIEWER: Did they come and take away your television?
Jahangir: They didn’t. Since it was only two months. So I re-paid last month. I pay the monthly installments along with the half the default amount.
INTERVIEWER: What is the area of this house?
Jahangir: 4 gajas.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any other property?
Jahangir: No.
INTERVIEWER: What other work do you do apart from the buffalos?
Jahangir: Just the milk business.
INTERVIEWER: What is your income from it?
Jahangir: Rs.5000 monthly.
INTERVIEWER: What are these cylinders lying around?
Jahangir: The neighbours go to work and are not there when the deliveries happen. So I keep them here till they come.
INTERVIEWER: Is that your only business?
Jahangir: I also sell diesel and cool drinks.
INTERVIEWER: So you sell milk and diesel and together earn Rs.5000?
Jahangir: The Rs.5000 is the milk only. It depends on how much I sell. But roughly I earn around Rs.1800 from selling diesel.
INTERVIEWER: So why did you decide to buy the buffalo?
Jahangir: There are the milk booths now. We get about Rs.25 per litre.
INTERVIEWER: How many litres of milk does the buffalo yield?
Jahangir: 5-6 litres
INTERVIEWER: Both morning and evening?
Jahangir: Yes. 5-6 litres together.
INTERVIEWER: Did they tell you that the buffalo will give you more milk when you bought it?
Jahangir: No they said it will give 6.
INTERVIEWER: How much does it give now?
Jahangir: About 7 litres.
INTERVIEWER: So it gives a litre more now. Why?
Jahangir: We feed it fresh grass.
INTERVIEWER: So it is profitable.
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: So you got Rs.20,000 from micro-finance and the rest Rs.15,000 from the milk man. Who do you pay him back?
Jahangir: We give him monthly Rs. 1000 or Rs.500-600. He cuts it from our payment for the supply of milk.
INTERVIEWER: Is there any interest on that loan?
Jahangir: No.
INTERVIEWER: What is the interest with Spandana?
Jahangir: It’s Rs.1.
INTERVIEWER: What are the documents that they asked you?
Ration card xerox, photos,electricty bill and a letter from the gram panchayat.
INTERVIEWER: Why gram panchayat letter?
Jahangir: The letter is proof saying that I have been living here. They took Rs.700 as processing fee and then they gave me the money.
INTERVIEWER: You have to pay Rs.5000 for four months. Have you approached anyone else for a loan?
Jahangir: No.
INTERVIEWER: Are you comfortable with Spandana. Have you given them any cheques?
Jahangir: It’s ok as long as you pay them correctly. I haven't given them any cheques.
INTERVIEWER: Do they come to collect the installments?
Jahangir: They come the 9th of every month.
INTERVIEWER: Don't mind me asking but you belong to the Scheduled Castes right. The SC Corporations give a lot of subsidized loans for buying cattle etc.
Jahangir: I applied twice but I haven't got it. Lots of others got it. They said that I will get it the next time.
INTERVIEWER: What was the reason they refused the loan?
Jahangir: I don't know.
INTERVIEWER: What is your monthly expenditure? Do only you and your father earn in this household?
Jahangir: One brother works for this private company called Alphameda.
INTERVIEWER: So can I assume that from the buffalo, milk booth and diesel sales you earn about Rs.15-16,000 a month. How much does your dad earn?
Jahangir: He is a farmer. It’s difficult to predict. We get a return on our investment.
INTERVIEWER: A rough estimate?
Jahangir: About 15,000 a year.
INTERVIEWER: What about your brother?
Jahangir: He earns about Rs. 2500 a month.
INTERVIEWER: So it’s about Rs.22,000 for the whole month from all of you.
Jahangir: No, not that much. Me and my brother together earn about Rs.10,000. You cannot count my father’s earning.
INTERVIEWER: What is your monthly expenditure for food etc.?
Jahangir: About Rs.6000.
INTERVIEWER: Are you putting away any money?
Jahangir: No we had taken a loan to build this house. We put chits these days.
INTERVIEWER: How much do you pay for chit funds?
Jahangir: Rs.6000 monthly.
INTERVIEWER: How come it’s that much?
Jahangir: It’s for two different chits of 1lakh and Rs.60,000 rupee chits.
INTERVIEWER: And how much for the Spandana loan?
Jahangir: Rs.1700.
INTERVIEWER: So say it’s about Rs.5000 for all your installments. What do you do with the rest of the money? Are you putting it in the bank or giving it out for interest.
Jahangir: There is some expenditure. We just paid back the house loan of about Rs.1.5 lakh.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you get the loan from and what’s the interest?
Jahangir: We got it from outside at the interest of Rs.2.
INTERVIEWER: So have you completely paid back the loan?
Jahangir: Almost, there is about Rs.10-5,000 left.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have a bank account?
Jahangir: Yes at the State Bank, Thummakonda.
INTERVIEWER: Did you approach them for a loan?
Jahangir: No.
INTERVIEWER: Is your mother part of a dokara group?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: For how long? Did she take any loans from them?
Jahangir: For a long time. She takes small loans from time to time. Like Rs.5000-10,000.
INTERVIEWER: Does she any pending loans?
Jahangir: No.
INTERVIEWER: What is the thrift amount in her name?
Jahangir: I don't know. Only the women know.
INTERVIEWER: This your motorcycle?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have a mobile? Who else has?
Jahangir: I have and my younger brother has.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have a television and cable TV.
Jahangir: Yes, we have dish antennae.
INTERVIEWER: How much does a dish cost?
Jahangir: About Rs.1000 for a year.
INTERVIEWER: What is your monthly electricity bill?
Jahangir: Rs.150
INTERVIEWER: How much do your recharge your mobile phone for?
Jahangir: Rs.200 a month
INTERVIEWER: Your brother?
Jahangir: I don't know.
INTERVIEWER: Does your father have a phone?
Jahangir: No.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have the book that Spandana give you?
Jahangir: No, I don't have it.
INTERVIEWER: Can I see you ration card?
Jahangir: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: I would also like to photocopy your Spandana book. Can you arrange for that?
Jahangir: Yes sir. Surely.
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