Interview with Promila Thakur, Panchayat, Amb, Himachal Pradesh

Duration: 00:16:11; Aspect Ratio: 1.778:1; Hue: 127.238; Saturation: 0.008; Lightness: 0.439; Volume: 0.377; Cuts per Minute: 0.741; Words per Minute: 83.355

The Identity project emerged as a result of our dissatisfaction at the nature of the debate that was emerging on the area of digital governance in India.
Over the past three years we have conducted numerous field visits in seven Indian states.These visits include numerous video-conversations, some short and others very long, with a diverse number of those who were involved with this entire process of participating in the emergence of a digital ecosystem of governance. These are interviews with people being enrolled into the Aadhaar programme, with district-level Panchayat and other officials, with numerous State government bureaucrats, with private enrollment representatives, representatives of various governmental services, with operators and other members of this digital workforce. Conversations are often long, spontaneous and deliberately unstructured: and the focus is mainly on a vérité style using amateur video.
Some key issues that we shortlisted for detailed inquiry were issues of migrants, both domestic and across international borders, homelessness in cities, and the financially excluded. Each of these areas was discussed in considerable detail at major public consultations held in Delhi, Kolkata, Hyderabad and Bangalore, in partnership with the CSDS, the Mahanirban Calcutta Research Group, and the Urban Research and Policy Programme Initiative of the National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore. All videos of all presentations made at these events are also available here.
CSCS also has an extensive text archives of material on the field as a whole, available on http://eprints.cscsarchives.org.

Clip Summary: Interview with the Panchayat of Amb district in Himachal, on the digitization of their benefits, and the issues they are having with these. She speaks about how she is helping with the booths, like getting a generator, supplying tea thrice a day. She also talks about the problems faces such as the sudden influx of people etc. This Panchayat has no CSCs as yet.

Interviewer: How is the panchayat helping with the Aadhar registrations ?
Promila Thakur: This is our duty. The crowd is huge. We are trying to manage the crowd in lines, two for males, two for females. Then we are sending the applicants, one male and one female, to the machines. Today there has been a power outage so we made the arrangements for a generator. We are serving the officials with Water and tea. We are trying to help them at our level best.

Interviewer: Are you providing the water and tea?
Promila Thakur: Yes, we are providing it.

Interviewer : What are issues that the people are facing?
Promila Thakur: There are no major issues as such. Huge crowd is the only concern we have. We have called the people on the ward basis of the wards but as the news spreads the out stationed people come out of turn because they have taken a leave so accommodating them becomes a bit difficult.

Interviewer: Has the crowd grown extremely large ?
Promila Thakur: For the past two days there have been a huge crowd and we faced some difficulty controlling them. We stood at the door and allowed them turn by turn.

Interviewer: Do you use any numbering or token system when there is a large crowd ?
Promila Thakur: We cant give numbers, there three forms and most of them have not stapled it so it becomes difficult for us to collect the forms. We allow two ladies and two gents at a time at they are supposed to retain their forms.
Aadhar Official: Other problem with the numbering system is that if some one misses his turn and comes back later, they demand to go first, which creates a confusion and mess.

Interviewer: How many wards do you have in your panchyat?
Promila Thakur: We have 9 wards in out panchyat.

Interviewer: Do you have the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act and the BPL programs ?
Promila Thakur: Yes we have two programs under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act and many other programs running regularly since we been in the panchyat. We are not facing any issues form the block level , BDO, JE or any other places. We are not facing any problems but i do not know about the other panchyats.

Interviewer: What is your name please ?
Promila Thakur: Promila Thakur.

Interviewer: Is the election polling done here ?
Promila Thakur: Yes the list is here but the voting is done somewhere else.
Interviewer: Do you compare the election polling list with the Aadhar registration list.
Promila Thakur: No, we don't do that.
Aadhar Official: The ward panch's are coming with the people. They have a good idea of number of people in there wards and they are able to tell us the number of people who have registered and number of them pending. As per our analysis this panchyat has 2400 votes so the population will be more than 3000. Then we calculate our daily coverage. With these statistics we make our schedule E.g. If we can cover 300 applicants daily in a population of 3000 so we have to station there for 10 days. We adjust the last one or two days according to the people left or in excess.

Interviewer: These people did not have an identity card ?
Promila Thakur: Yes, so we verify them. E.g. children under the age of 18 years do not have any identification document.

Interviewers: These were not kids. Are they new to the village ?
Promila Thakur: No they are not new to the village but most of them have lost their Ration Cards.

Interviewer: Does the panchayat Issue duplicate ration cards for those who have lost them ?
Promila Thakur: Most of the people have their ration cards but they a careless about their voters identity card. I case they have lost their ration cards then the panchyat issues them a duplicate card, but if we do not have the cards then we issue a letter under my seal and their ration card number, that they have lost their ration card. Even that solves the issue.

Interviewer: How do you verify the people before issuing them a duplicate ration card ?
Promila Thakur: We have family registers with the panchayat secretary. They have there names and house numbers and the ration card numbers. I visit the panchayat twice a month. Sometimes for some meetings, gram sabhas etc. The Panchayat Secretary is available every day. He takes care of the birth certificates or the death certificates and the other documents.

Aadhar Official: The Ward Panchs and the Pradhan Sahiba, are available for all special events like the Aadhar Registrations. They are here the entire time for the Gram Sabha. Other days the Secretary is available here for tall the services.

Promila Thakur: Under the Total Sanitation Campaign, we along with the Panchs, UpPradhans and the Sachiv we have been to every house. We have provided them a lavatory pot per card. We have verified the distribution our self. We have a 5 to 6 member committee per ward. They keep a regular check on the cleanliness.

Interviewer: Do you know about the Lok Mitr Kendra under the common services scheme or is there one in your panchyat yet ?
Promila Thakur: No, its not there in our panchayat.
Aadhar Official: 190 Panchyats out of 235 have been covered under the Common Services Scheme. 45 are still remaining.

Interviewer: Are most of the services provided here provided by the CSCs ?
Aadhar Official: As per my information only the electricity bill and the revenue land recodes are the two services started by the CSCs

Interviewer: Are the records computerized or manual ?
Promila Thakur: Yes we have all the records on the computers. Earlier they used to be on manual but now computers are there in the panchyat so all the records are also computerized. The secretaries are trained to operate the computers. They record the expenditure etc on the computer too.

Interviewer: Do you think Aadhaar Number will help you in providing the services?
Promila Thakur: People come to us to know the benefits of the Aadhaar card. We tell them is, like ration cards serve as an identification along with with providing them ration, The Aadhar card will also serve as an identification document for all the services provided by the government. The people are only bother about their personal benefits. E.g. If we make a road that touches 10 houses but one is a bit off road , they feel they did not receive any benefit not realizing that the road is serving them too for a major part. We have seen a change in this ideology of people when we explain and talk to them. A bank account is also being provided along with the Aadhaar card.

Aadhar official: With the Aadhaar number the verification process will become easier and people will face less issues.
Pomila Thakur: Earlier the Pradhan had to give a written verification letter if they wanted to open an account. Aadhaar card will provide a benefit in such cases.

Aadhar official: Once the Aadhaar services are online, you can link the Aadhaar number to the government services too, like the Ration Card. It will make it easier for you to identify your beneficiaries.

Promila Thakur: It's nice you came here, I came to know a lot more about the benefits of the Aadhar Card. Now we will be able to explain the people in a much better way. The watchman stays here for the entire time and helps them. A refrigerator is not sanctioned in a panchyat but we got one on our own to aid the people here. I am trying my level best to serve the panchayat in the best way possible.
Promila Thakur: It's nice you came here, I came to know a lot more about the benefits of the Aadhar Card. Now we will be able to explain the people in a much better way. The watchman stays here for the entire time and helps them. A refrigerator is not sanctioned in a panchyat but we got one on our own to aid the people here. I am trying my level best to serve the panchayat in the best way possible.

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