Interview with Ramakrishna: Boya tribal and brother of Sarpanch
Duration: 00:22:30; Aspect Ratio: 1.778:1; Hue: 147.451; Saturation: 0.066; Lightness: 0.364; Volume: 0.299; Cuts per Minute: 3.199; Words per Minute: 103.448
Summary: The Identity project emerged as a result of our dissatisfaction at the nature of the debate that was emerging on the area of digital governance in India.
Over the past three years we have conducted numerous field visits in seven Indian states.These visits include numerous video-conversations, some short and others very long, with a diverse number of those who were involved with this entire process of participating in the emergence of a digital ecosystem of governance. These are interviews with people being enrolled into the Aadhaar programme, with district-level Panchayat and other officials, with numerous State government bureaucrats, with private enrollment representatives, representatives of various governmental services, with operators and other members of this digital workforce. Conversations are often long, spontaneous and deliberately unstructured: and the focus is mainly on a vérité style using amateur video.
Some key issues that we shortlisted for detailed inquiry were issues of migrants, both domestic and across international borders, homelessness in cities, and the financially excluded. Each of these areas was discussed in considerable detail at major public consultations held in Delhi, Kolkata, Hyderabad and Bangalore, in partnership with the CSDS, the Mahanirban Calcutta Research Group, and the Urban Research and Policy Programme Initiative of the National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore. All videos of all presentations made at these events are also available here.
CSCS also has an extensive text archives of material on the field as a whole, available on
http://eprints.cscsarchives.org.
Clip Summary: Ramakrishna, Sarpanch’s Brother, Caste based leader in Kurnool District
The Kotekal village has a problem of factional violence. The first factional violence started in 1973. The last time there was a murder in the village was in the year 2000. Some of this relatives had to go to jail for violence that took place in the 1990s. The families that were involved in the crime have left the village. The influence of factions has declined over the last few years. There is no use for indulging in factional violence and they have lost heavily. There is now a growing emphasis on sending their children to school’s. His son is studying in Vijayawada.
INTERVIEWER: Tell us your name.
Ramakrishna: Ramakrishna, sir.
INTERVIEWER: You are the Sarpanch of this village?
Ramakrishna: No sir, my older brother is.
INTERVIEWER: For how long has he been the sarpanch?
Ramakrishna: From 2008.
INTERVIEWER: Has your family been involved in politics from a long time?
Ramakrishna: No sir.
INTERVIEWER: Then since when?
Ramakrishna: We started from 2008. We've been taking interest in politics but only in 2008 we got really involved.
INTERVIEWER: Tell us a little about the village politics.
Ramakrishna: There isn't much to say. There are the factions.
INTERVIEWER: Since when have the factions been around?
Ramakrishna: From the beginning... 1972 was when it started.
INTERVIEWER: What happened in '72?
Ramakrishna: Some murders were committed.
INTERVIEWER: Within this village?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir.
INTERVIEWER: Who was murdered?
Ramakrishna: There was tension between Gowdas and Valmikis and then it was over. And in 92, there was another murder.
INTERVIEWER: Are you a Gowda?
Ramakrishna: No sir, Valmiki. In '92 we were attacked again. After that in 2006 they killed our Sarpanch. After those clashes they have all left the village.
INTERVIEWER: How many families have left?
Ramakrishna: Only the families who suffered casualties or were involved left. The others are still here.
INTERVIEWER: So there are Gowda still living here.
Ramakrishna: Yes sir. Only the killers and their families left. The neutral families are all here. It's been peaceful since 2006.
INTERVIEWER: What kind of politics are you involved? From the mandal level to the district and state level.
Ramakrishna: Not district level sir, only at the mandal level.
INTERVIEWER: Who are you with at the mandal level?
Ramakrishna: Chennakesava Reddy is our MLA, we support him.
INTERVIEWER: Are you with him since '92?
Ramakrishna: We don't know what happened at the time of our father, but from the time we've become aware, we've been with Chennakesava Reddy.
INTERVIEWER: Are you still involved in faction politics or have you given it up?
Ramakrishna: No sir, we are not involved. Being involved in faction politics is dangerous. We want to work and live quietly. In my father's time they had power but not anymore.
INTERVIEWER: So no one has been to jail within your close group?
Ramakrishna: No sir.
INTERVIEWER: These clashes have been going on for about 30 years now. Has there been any kind of inheritance of power and what have been the repercussions - good or bad?
Ramakrishna: In '92, my family members and our people have been in jail for 2 years. Their children have decided that these clashes have nothing for them and not indulged in it.
INTERVIEWER: For the time that they were part of the faction what was happening?
Ramakrishna: There were only losses. There's nothing to gain from factions. We all just want to educate our children and give our families good and quiet lives. Everyone's children study outside the village and there's a big difference between us and the way our children think.
INTERVIEWER: Where do your children go to study?
Ramakrishna: My son studied in Vijayawada for two years.
INTERVIEWER: In Junior college? Which College?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir. In Sri Chaitaniya. This year he moved to Adoni. Everybody's children are doing much the same...
INTERVIEWER: What does your son study in Adoni?
Ramakrishna: Second year in junior college. Everyone has been going outside the village, since we don't have a college. A high school started only a few years ago. We've all studied only till class 7 and dropped out.
INTERVIEWER: Now what do the children do for high school?
Ramakrishna: It's here only now.
INTERVIEWER: For college you have to go out of the village?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir, after class 10 they leave.
INTERVIEWER: Do they travel up and down every day?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir.
INTERVIEWER: Which place do most people go to?
Ramakrishna: Adoni and Yemlur, since these two are the main urban centres.
INTERVIEWER: What do you depend on most in this village?
Ramakrishna: The rains.
INTERVIEWER: Where are the farms?
Ramakrishna: All around the village.
INTERVIEWER: But there are only hills around the village.
Ramakrishna: Our lands are in and around the hills.
INTERVIEWER: What grows there?
Ramakrishna: Cotton, maize, jowar...
INTERVIEWER: What else do you do?
Ramakrishna: For other crops there isn’t enough water.
INTERVIEWER: What do you do apart from agriculture?
Ramakrishna: We all mainly depend on agriculture, that's what we do and it takes up all out time. If there isn't enough work, then people go to towns or cities to earn something and then return.
INTERVIEWER: What would they do in cities?
Ramakrishna: Manual work, construction work...
INTERVIEWER: At this point, how many people from your village live and work outside?
Ramakrishna: Very few. This is the season, so nobody leaves.
Speaker: February, March they leave... By June they return with the rains.
INTERVIEWER: How far do they go looking for work?
Ramakrishna: Hyderabad, Chittor, Guntur...
INTERVIEWER: Bombay?
Ramakrishna: Not often. The SCs go to Bombay.
INTERVIEWER: What kind of work do they do there?
Ramakrishna: At the fish market, for about 6 months.
Speaker2: There are some people who've moved there permanently and visit once or twice a year.
INTERVIEWER: Do people of all castes have farm lands here?
Speaker 2: To an extent...
Ramakrishna: Landless people are more than people who own farms.
INTERVIEWER: What do they do?
Ramakrishna: Farm labour.
Speaker 2: Farmers have 15- 20 acres of land, the other would own anywhere between 1-5 acres.
INTERVIEWER: In this village are there Reddy and Choudhari families?
Speaker 2: Yes sir.
INTERVIEWER: Are they big landlords?
Ramakrishna: No sir. They own land like everyone else.
INTERVIEWER: Who owns the most land?
Ramakrishna: Nobody owns majority of lands. Everyone owns more or less the same. The most is 20 acres. Nobody owns 50 acres...
INTERVIEWER: Which caste group has the most 20 acres lands?
Ramakrishna: We have 20 acres, each of my brothers. Amongst us we have about 80.
INTERVIEWER: There are these new houses being built in your village. How is that?
Ramakrishna: That is under a government scheme.
INTERVIEWER: Which scheme?
Speaker2: Houses were damaged and had collapsed due to bad weather. The government came and enquired and granted these buildings. YSR had started this scheme under Indira Gandhi's name.
INTERVIEWER: So these houses were damaged in the rains?
Ramakrishna: Last year the monsoon was very heavy and our houses are mud houses so they collapsed. Government gives part of the money and we put in the rest to rebuild.
INTERVIEWER: Are 'Indiramma homes' here? Since when?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir. From the time the scheme started they've been here.
INTERVIEWER: How many people have these homes?
Speaker2 : More than 120 homes have been built.
INTERVIEWER: What's your caste occupation?
Ramakrishna: Agricultures, sir.
INTERVIEWER: You've participated in politics for the past 20-30 years.
Ramakrishna: No sir....
INTERVIEWER: I mean the Valmiki sect has been involved in politics in Kurnool area at one point. Due to that, has there been improvement in education, business or immigration?
Ramakrishna: No sir. Immigrating outside the village hasn't been due to politics.
Speaker2: Our elders had no clue about politics. They voted for whoever they were told to vote for.
INTERVIEWER: So now, you educate your children and they get jobs outside.
Ramakrishna: There are no jobs for us now. Many of us/our children have degrees.
INTERVIEWER: So, the government says there're no jobs available.
Ramakrishna: Yes. Our children have BSc. degrees also.
Speaker 2: When there are lacs of applicants for a few hundred jobs, then how will we get anything?
INTERVIEWER: How much is your income per-acre?
Ramakrishna: Depends on the rains. If the rains are regular, then 20-30,000 for 5-6 quintals. This year there hasn't been any rain - if we get 1 quintal for an acre, we'd be lucky.
INTERVIEWER: When you have profits during a good year, do you invest you money?
Ramakrishna: It fluctuates every year. When we have money, we spend it on the children and when there isn't we borrow. So the circle continues.
INTERVIEWER: Where do you borrow from?
Ramakrishna: Wherever we get money.
INTERVIEWER: Do you borrow from banks?
Ramakrishna: Who'll give us loans in a bank? Bank lends us very little. Maybe up to Rs.5000 and we can't run our households on it. For it to make sense, then they should give Rs.20-30,000 per acre.
INTERVIEWER: How much do you borrow in a year?
Ramakrishna: Depends on the family. Small families have to borrow less and large families have to borrow more.
INTERVIEWER: Who do you borrow from?
Ramakrishna: Any one, I could ask you and pay you with 2 rupees interest.
INTERVIEWER: Are there money lenders in the village?
Ramakrishna: No sir.
Speaker 2: The crop dealers who we sell our produce to, they lend us money when we need.
INTERVIEWER: As an advance?
Speaker2: On interest. Usually for 2 rupees.
INTERVIEWER: So you sell only to them? What is the rate you get?
Ramakrishna: Differs. They would've put in a tender. They give us according to the tender rate. Because they've lent us money, they don’t change our crop rates.
INTERVIEWER: It's all fair.
Ramakrishna: Yes, sir.
INTERVIEWER: What about these microfinance companies?
Ramakrishna: We haven't borrowed from Microfinancers.
INTERVIEWER: Why?
Ramakrishna: They come every month and ask to pay. We have to have the money at that time to pay them, which we don't. Then they'd harass us and it'll be difficult.
INTERVIEWER: In several areas of Kurnool district, it's been working well for 2-3 years.
Ramakrishna: A lot of people haven't been able to repay. They've stopped giving loans now.
INTERVIEWER: That's now. What about last year?
Ramakrishna: Last year we'd borrowed, repaid and closed it.
INTERVIEWER: Which companies came here?
Ramakrishna: Only Spandana came here.
INTERVIEWER: Only one?
Ramakrishna: To our village, no one else came.
INTERVIEWER: Did anyone borrow from cooperative banks?
Ramakrishna: What is that?
INTERVIEWER: Society.
Ramakrishna: Yes sir, society banks have lent to us. For each acre they gave a certain amount.
Speaker2: They gave 20,000 for 2 acres.
INTERVIEWER: There are no professional money lenders in your village?
Ramakrishna: No sir. There's no one who belongs to a big wealthy family here.
Speaker 2: They have to have 30-40 lacs or more to be money lenders here. Everyone would be borrowing from them and it wouldn't work if they weren't wealthy. For everything, from weddings to building homes we have to borrow on interest only.
Ramakrishna: That's because our agricultural produce fluctuates so much, we don't have a steady income.
Speaker2: We have very few bore wells and no canals.
Ramakrishna: We have to apply for bore wells. If you give us your opinions then we could apply for them.
INTERVIEWER: We're not connected to the government.
Ramakrishna: If you think you could suggest ways that could improve our lives then please tell us. We'll do our best.
INTERVIEWER: Are there government thrift and saving schemes here?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir.
INTERVIEWER: So you're a part of it?
Ramakrishna: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: How much loan did you take?
Ramakrishna: The first time we borrowed, it was Rs.50,000; the second is a lac and then Rs.50, 000 thereafter for every loan.
Speaker2: There were about 10 people. First year it was Rs.5000 per person then next year Rs.10,000. Then we have to keep paying to get the next loan.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have Arogyasri card?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir.
INTERVIEWER: Does everyone in the village have the White card?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir.
INTERVIEWER: The Indiramma homes are there?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir.
INTERVIEWER: Gas connection?
Ramakrishna: No gas connection.
INTERVIEWER: Did they not provide or you didn't take it?
Ramakrishna: They didn't give us and we didn't ask for it.
INTERVIEWER: How did you get your Arogyasri card? Did you go apply for it or did they come to you?
Ramakrishna: No sir, the government only gave it to us.
INTERVIEWER: The white ration card?
Ramakrishna: They only brought it to us.
INTERVIEWER: You didn't try to apply for it?
Ramakrishna: No sir.
Speaker2: They came here to the village and gave it to us.
INTERVIEWER: Are there scholarships for your children?
Ramakrishna: Our children are all studying outside. There they get scholarships. College students get it.
INTERVIEWER: Do you get reimbursement?
Ramakrishna: No sir, only scholarships.
INTERVIEWER: SC/ST Scholarship you mean. Last year did they reimburse the fees?
Ramakrishna: No sir, they haven't.
INTERVIEWER: Do you get pension?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir, we get pension.
Speaker2: Yes the older people get pensions, not us.
Ramakrishna: People over 60, handicapped persons.
INTERVIEWER: The 100 days work programme?
Speaker2: Last year it happened but not this year. For 3 years it went very well. The people who'd go out to find work stayed in the village. There are about a thousand people in our village. They wanted about 200 people which couldn't happen. We can't send only people that we want to. So we stopped.
Ramakrishna: It's been happening.
INTERVIEWER: Did it happen for at least a year?
Speaker2: For 3 years. Couples got 100 days' work. They came and told us; only 300 people could work under the scheme.
Speaker: Some people finished their hundred days some didn't. It was unfair that some got work and others didn't.
INTERVIEWER: When the work happened, do they give you the money or put it in a bank?
Speaker 2: At the post office and the bank.
INTERVIEWER: They didn't hand you cash?
Ramakrishna: No sir.
Speaker2: We had to go to post office sign and then get it.
INTERVIEWER: All the 900 people in the village have the NREGA card?
Speaker 2: Yes sir, all 900 people worked and all of them have the card.
INTERVIEWER: Between the governments of Chandrababu Naidu, YS Rajashekar Reddy and now, who had the better schemes and which didn't work?
Ramakrishna: Everyone knows YSR did very good work. What did Chandrababu do?
Speaker 2: Everyone looks up to YSR; nobody has been as well respected as he is. He did very good work. There have been people who had nothing before and have been able to build homes because of this work scheme. They work for a number of hours each day and then return and do their daily chores and farm work. It worked very well.
INTERVIEWER: Which years?
Speaker2: 2007, 08 and 09. 2010 didn't work for us.
INTERVIEWER: How long did it work like that?
Speaker2: 3 years.
INTERVIEWER: So now, there's no 100 days' work.
Speaker2: In very few places it happens, wherever there's work...
Ramakrishna: The government says they can't provide work for all 1000 of us. We all want to work, but they couldn't provide enough work.
INTERVIEWER: Did you also go to work for the scheme?
Ramakrishna: Yes sir, of course...
INTERVIEWER: So these schemes were brought here in February, March. And after that?
Speaker 2: Until June. From June we start farming.
Ramakrishna: Because there were no rains, they started it. They also wanted to prevent people from going to other places and contracting diseases like HIV. YSR started this. We have farm work until January. From February onwards they had the scheme running until the next farming season.
INTERVIEWER: Please tell us you names
Ramakrishna: Ramakrishna.
Speaker2: Somanna.
Speaker: Narasappa.
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