Radia Tapes: 097 - Radia, G. Ganapathy Subramanium
Duration: 00:21:31; Aspect Ratio: 1.250:1; Lightness: 0.087; Volume: 0.249; Cuts per Minute: 2.601; Words per Minute: 149.539
Phone Rings (Pal pal pal har pal)
Ganapathy: Hello? Yeah yeah what happened is.. yesterday all this they have got.. done through only a couple of ODCT's.. okay so.. their idea is it seems Dalapanthy when he called up yesterday and spoke to all these people.. have been saying that you know..
Ganapathy: Remember that day when Remu and all had called for lunch etc? It seems they gave some news to this Shukiya... that is I think that RNRL saying something whatever blah blah blah.. court has not done justice to us. whatever, something..
Radia: Day of the order they were saying it is an unequalable victory.. it is victorious and all this.. great victorious and all.. now what victory are they talking about? Why have you gone to the Supreme Court if it is a victory!
Ganapathy: Yeah.. totally stupid.. now what they have been saying is.. because remember later on when we drummed up all that thing about national resources how you know this agreement itself is null and void, that day they gave a story that they want a court order immediately implemented and earlier the PSC allowed RIL to sign such contracts so they should be honoured blah blah..
Ganapathy: But the story is.. it seems Supriya wrote that according to whatever they wanted, but it was not carried in Delhi. It was carried only in Bombay. So they have made a big issue out of it.. made a huge you know, hue and cry.. and said that you know, you have been helping them.. not been helping us and all.. blah blah..
Radia: You are only reporting what is facts na? You are not putting your own part na? You are doing what's in court na?
Ganapathy: This is their claim. Now, this is their argument. Not necessarily the facts. We know what the facts are. But this is the kind of drama they have created. And said, today don't carry.. They got very worried they way changes were seen. And they went about explaining RNRL how they want other agreements stopped and all.
Ganapathy: CNBC did have it initially but once he started putting it up you know others to be suspended then we also gave a little about what Deora said etc.. we got one of our reporters to speak to Deora, Chennai by meeting where he had gone to.
Ganapathy: But after that there was a lot of panic and lot of phonecalls. And they got it, the RNRL part stopped. Even I think.. my information is that not only here, but they were going all out everywhere to make sure that not much coverage happened. In fact I don't know what other papers have said etc..
Radia: The released part of the SLP is that they put it out in the media.. in terms of what our SLP said. And it said that they could dilute it. But the most significant part of our SLP is.. I don't know how it will carry it Ganu.. I mean I'm just a bit worried about ET right now. But the thing is that we have said in our SLP that we could risk losing our agreement with the government.
Radia: Our agreement with the government..
Ganapathy: Oh! The PSC itself.
Radia: PSC itself. We are at risk of being prosecuted by the regulator. And not only that, you remember the argument of Harish Salvi that we will make profit of 2.34?
Radia: We have said that over 17 years we will make a loss of over 55,000/- crores.
Ganapathy: Oh! I see.
Radia: So what the judge had said that we have said that we will make a profit is absolutely wrong. Basis was what the judge said, that Harish said but Harish never said that. He never said that. It has been carried incorrectly. The judgment has not quoted it correctly. And actually we made a loss of 55,000(?) in 17 years.
Radia: And the business of NELP will go for a six!
Ganapathy: Yeah yeah of course. It is like this then who is going to time for the contacts of the government?
Radia: Correct, correct. But we are not going to sit there are take it lightly and just allow Anil Ambani to do what he wants. We're fighting that! They are mentioning their matter on Tuesday, Ours' will come up on Wednesday. I am sure the judge on Tuesday will club it together in one.
Radia: Their attempt to file it early was to get their choice of Supreme court judge.
Radia: You know, so that they can (?) somewhere.
Ganapathy: Oh! Okay! But the point now is that case.. both parties have gone in appeal is sure to get admitted? If it is sure to get admitted then judge will say okay let's stop them together.
Radia: Yeah. It's mettle is in favour. All the companies are going to go up in court.
Ganapathy: So the mention is on Tuesday. For them the mention is on Tuesday and for you the mention is on Wednesday.
Radia: No. We are saying on Tuesday that any case Harish is not back till Wednesday. So they are saying they are mentioning on Tuesday. You can stick it to that only maybe our lawyer will be there in any case. but i don't think I mean...it will You can say that most likely the judges will club it together. Don't say RIL sources.. but most likely it will get clubbed together, because they both have gone together na.
Radia: Nobody has come out with this point that the day of the judgement, everybody was victorious.. they were jumping and great joy!! And now, they have challenged the very high court judgement.
Ganapathy: Yeah yeah it was Bodhi.. I still remember saying unequivocal victory very clear victory for Anil Ambani. And therefore he doesn't have any reason to whatever - go to court and appeal in court or whatever. Now, they have themselves appealed in court. All you know plots are... one part after another.
Radia: What is the headline in Delhi?
Ganapthy: In Delhi...the same repeated line..the day after- RIL moves SC gas case or whatever.
Radia: And sub headline?
Ganapathy: Just one second let me see if there was a sub headline and tell you also the exact wordings of the main headline. One minute.... I was so upset after hearing this stupid day after business yeah... it says day after, 'Mukesh files special petition in SC'.
ET article dated July 05, 2009
Ganapathy: So it doesn't make any sense at all. So I think deliberately I think they must have put ... I have no understanding of what this means, etc. And the small headline says 'move after RNRL plea seeks speedy implemention of HC order'.
Ganapathy: I think it is the same in Mumbai also.
Radia: It was same in Mumbai. It's not correct.
Ganapathy: Absolutely. I can see that morning first thing when I saw this I was so upset... Now I understand..I mean at least what I can see is that there is the larger gameplan you know larger kind of involvement than what I initially thought of.
Radia: Yeah. But it won't be right.
Ganapathy: Of course it is not. But,unfortunately the facts are like that ma'am.. what I heard that all of them had big firing.
Ganapathy: Last three four days the way things have been going initially projected as big things victory and all now things are moving in a very different direction.
Ganapathy: One thing which I have come to understand is, atleast what they feel is that now, the issue has developed in such a way the case of the government and RIL seem to converge.
Ganapathy: While these guys are left as the odd man out you know, fighting everybody.. I mean the entire.. going against the entire policy, entire discussion, everything.
Ganapathy: So that is the reason I think they have panicked. From morning to evening they are calling up the whole world. And Tony and Sethu and all these guys have been doing nothing but, including Talkhani and what not. And Wednesday it seems Anil Ambani was here and they told them that what is the point in Delhi.. the handling of the situation is very poor.
Radia: But Ganapathy tell me one thing, how do I bring out this other point tomorrow?
Ganapathy: Tomorrow is budget day, I don't know what, how much will come out.. how it is sort of.. what is the situation in CPI now?
Radia: CPI is okay. I mean he is still with them, that doesn't do our stories, it still does our stories.
Ganapathy: Yeah but after he fell ill, whatever.. is he less active, more active, or ..
Radia: He is still very active. Back to normal.
Ganapathy: He is controlling everything na?
Ganapathy: So then I think the best thing is to put it out on Tuesday morning.
Radia: No Tuesday morning will carry.. all the budget news will be there na?
Ganapathy: No no.. by Tuesday morning I am saying.. Tuesday morning so that it is carried on Wednesday in the papers and Tuesday, during the day all channels.. online, TV..
Radia: What's the schedule of all your meetings with the finance minister now? What is going to happen? ET is now meeting Doordarshan is it?
Ganapathy: The Finance Minister is refusing to meet anybody on budget day. Even Doordarshan.. usually there is a customary meeting of the Prime Minister and Finance Minister after the budget.
Ganapathy: But he is refusing to do even that. So Doordarshan has asked the speaker to put in hours.. Doordarshan has asked I&B minister to put in hours.. they want him to come and speak to them at 2 o'clock but he is just refusing.
I&B - Information and Broadcasting
Ganapathy: So therefore they are saying atleast he should speak to them in the evening 9.30 for the 9.30 bulletin. That Pranab Mukherjee is not that whatever publicity and all.. whatever.. he is just not interested.
Ganapathy: He knows that anyway he is getting enough publicity. So not confirming Doordarshan he is not conforming anybody else. He said, Doordarshan ko hi maine time nahi diya toh doosre ko kya
(If I haven't given time to Doordarshan, then why anybody else)
Radia: Tuesday, Wednesday ko tumhari koi meetings hai kya?
(Do you have any meetings on Tuesday, Wednesday?)
Ganapathy: No no.. On Tuesday, there is joint industry meeting organized by CII, SICY and Autocad in Delhi at Taj Palace at 12.30... with FM.. he is going to do customary post budget address.
Ganapathy: Usually he used to do separately with CII, sometime with SICY.. you know whatever morning .. one at 9.. with another at 10.30.. all that. So now he has said no.. now all that I can't do.. now I will do only one meeting.. club everything into one.
Ganapathy: So all these people have been forced to organize one meeting together and that will be at 12.30.
Radia: And that will last for 2 hours.
Ganapathy: Umm.. maybe an hour and a half.
Radia: Hmm.. then? Nothing after that.
Ganapathy: No.. no major event after the final .. in case, he agrees to do some interviews.. it could be after that.
Ganapathy: Secratary.. secretaires are okay.. I mean you know there is no specific.. but you know, tomorrow 3 o'clock the secretary is going to address a press conference.. I mean that is the post budget conference of the officer.
Ganapathy: The Finance secretary will be there, Asho Chawla will be there, the revenue secretary will be there, Bhide and you know the expenditure secratary, CBD, DCP, all these guys will be there.. but at 3 o'clock tomorrow.
Ganapathy: So you know these are for.. the officer 3 o'clock tomorrow and for the Minister it is 12.30 day after. So, that is the schedule.
Ganapathy: But, my understanding is that you know Pranab Mukherjee may speak to Pranoy Roy and a couple of people on Tuesday or a little later.
Ganapathy: He will speak to us also. He will speak to Arnab Mukherjee, he will speak to Pranoy Roy, he will speak to maybe Udayan... like that.
Ganapathy: So, I don't know whether he is going to do any interview with the YR separately.. about that I am not very clear.
Radia: Does it mean Monday and Tuesday he will speak to you?
Ganapathy: Monday, he doesn't want to.. as of now he is saying, he is putting his foot down.. on Monday he doesn't want to speak to anybody as a interview.
Radia: So he won't
Ganapathy: Yeah. If at all he does, it was on only this thing.. only Doordarshan.
Ganapathy: So Tuesday is that post budget conference and after that maybe he will do some interviews.
Radia: Hmm.. okay.
Radia: So, what do we do then, now? What is your sense?
Ganapathy: I think we should start hammering in a big way and maybe we should also tell people to not to.. sort of, listen to those guys so much. Because I don't know what all..
Radia: I told Bodhi just now. I have just given Bodhi a piece of my mind. And I have sent an SMS. You know he said, 'I am sorry. Point taken about the headline and I will take care and all that.'
Radia: I said its no point saying 'Point taken'.. you can't mess up my this thing.. so I am waiting for Rahul; he is going to call me back.
Ganapathy: No, you please tell him that you know, when it is court and when it is case.. things should be projected factually. If things are twisted at the stage of litigation, then the courts are also going to get affected. Tomorrow if you are twisting then court might not spare you as well.
Ganapathy: Of course then it also creates obligations for you because if the court gets angry, if the judges get angry, then they may you know, sort of .. say anything. You know, they are within their power to exploit their anger.
Ganapathy: So, apart from holding the publications accountable they will also question you. 'Who is saying this?' 'Which lawyer is this?' You know in this, for example, this Milind Sathe has been quoted.
Ganapathy: So, you can tell them how will our lawyer talk to you if you do this?
Radia: Body copy is okay. The body copy is largely on Dadri and all.
Ganapathy: That's okay. But judge also sees the headline first na? Then those two.. this thing.. body copy is okay because body copy follows just what the line .. that has been already said. And, one thing has been quietly omitted from that. About the RNRL business, that part has been just removed.
Ganapathy: It is as if, that RNRL has not made a second interim prayer in the court at all.
Ganapathy: And the other thing is that, for me to you know, hammer it all out, I need the court documents which are public documents.
Radia: Yeah but the reason we have not.. they have leaked out the key pointers but even have not put out the court documents.. like if I send you a summary, it differs from the court point of view- they get very upset.
Ganapathy: I am only talking about the documents which are public. See, once you have a document submitted in court, then they make copies and circulate it to everybody. Then, it is given to them also.
Radia: It is gone to them first in any case, yeah.
Ganapathy: So, therefore I am saying, I don't think there is ant difficulty. And how am I going to claim that this document has come to me from you or whatever?
Radia: Right. Okay, I will get it and I will talk to you tomorrow.
Ganapathy: So, all that and then as I requested you know one lawyer whom we can speak to.. see, the more questions I have, the more stronger the case becomes.
Ganapathy: Like you know, suppose, I can come there and watch the hearing, I will tell them you know.. questions on the spot. This is what I have seen, this is what I have heard. And then nobody can dispute.
Ganapathy: And then also, sort out all these confusions... not to let it move anywhere here and there.
Radia: But have you got access of Supreme court. Because, you require special provision no?
Ganapathy: I.. there is nothing like that because normally we don't really bother. But in this case I think only the lawyers know how to make a pass. Now they need not make me a pass of the journalist. They can make me a pass of the visitor or something.
Ganapathy: They may let me not go there and write notes or something. Let me just go there as a visitor.
Radia: I will get you a pass tomorrow.
Ganapathy: You know.. that
Radia: I will get you a pass done tomorrow.
Ganapathy: Okay. Because you know then, I can ask questions on the spot, then I establish having read and seen the relevant papers, then things become more authoritative and there is no confusion of anybody else putting it in any other way.
Radia: Okay. I will send it across to you and I will also send.. and I will get the court pass done tomorrow, yeah.
Ganapathy: Okay, Great.
Ganapathy: If somebody needs to get in touch with me or whatever, no problem at all.
Radia: Okay, will do.
Ganapathy: And yesterday you mentioned a junior lawyer or something in CM Wadi's office, who can...
Radia: Yeah, I spoke to them and their view was that why do you need that when we are giving you all the information you know. It was the only view. Okay I will get that done tomorrow.
Ganapathy: If I just know who is what that doesn't mean Milind Sathe can be quoted. We are not going to quote anybody. We are just going to need to have somebody to keep in touch- that's all.
Radia: Fair enough. I will get that done.
Ganapathy: Okay. You can tell them... court has no problem of anything...
Radia: I will do that. I will get that done.
Ganapathy: End of the day what I understand is this is going to be far messier and far worse than what I had originally imagined. These guys are going to be really, really, going all out.
Radia: Let's see. Because at the end of the day the truth is on us. Look at the Dainik Jagran today in Hindi in your... call for it and see the story. It is quite a story.
Radia: See, its a whole half page story on how private public assets are being used for private agreements. And they have gone completely into the whole detail of it.
Ganapathy: Oh! Lovely! That is something. The other thing I wanted to tell you is, I don't know what this, that they have done you know.. running advertisements of RTEL or RCOM or something... for our channel.
Ganapathy: I don't know what the arrangement is and how they are doing
Radia: Ravi said there is hardly anything.
Ganapathy: Because I frankly don't know. But what I have seen I thought I will drive your attention to that.
Radia: The advertisement has come in the paper also?
Ganapathy: No, not the same one but something or other once in a while... traditionally...
Radia: Ravi Zariwala told me that they are not even giving us 2-5 crores of advertising, they are not bothered with advertising.
Ganapathy: Okay, in that case it is only the question of some of the people concerned.
Radia: Yeah, like Bodhi...Bodhi and Rahul.
Ganapathy: Then maybe Mukeshbhai should speak to some of the other people concerned.