Radia Tapes: 064 - Radia, Rahul Joshi ET
Duration: 00:10:23; Aspect Ratio: 1.250:1; Lightness: 0.055; Volume: 0.205; Cuts per Minute: 2.212; Words per Minute: 217.278
(Phone Ringing.)
Nira: Hi!
Rahul: Hi! Is it a good time?
Nira: Yaa, yaa! Sorry. Actually I have been home. I didn't go to work because I have been unwell since the last two days so.
Rahul: Ok...
Nira: ... No, no just a... Just a little fever. No I don't have swine flu, thank God. (Laughs).
Nira: I haven't been quarantined yet. No just had a chest infection and a... I suffer from mild asthma so just was a little...
Rahul: ... I guess in Delhi it's the bad weather.
Nira: - Situation, yeah. Rahul I wanted to talk to you about the judgment yesterday.
Rahul: About the?
Nira: Judgment that happened yesterday.
Rahul: Oh! Sure, sure.
Nira: Yaa, just wanted your and... Honestly and... just as an opinion.
Rahul: Yaa, yaa!
Nira: Please don't get me wrong. I am not calling to put a perspective, but one has been quite troubled about what has been happening, between both my clients whether it is Tata Power, Tata or Reliance Industries.
Nira: We are somehow on the receiving end and one tries to understand who is... Who is fixing which system?
Nira: And I... Again I am just having a very friendly chat with you and not coming at it in any other way.
Rahul: No, no, sure.
Nira: You see Tata Power went and bid for Sasan. You remember the whole Sasan episode.
Rahul: Yaa, yaa. I remember.
Nira: We went to High Court. We have gone to Supreme Court now.
Nira: We have taken a decision in the Supreme Court that... Supreme Court... Took a decision to go to the Supreme Court because we felt that we didn't get the sort of respite we wanted from the High Court.
Rahul: Hmm!
Nira: There was clearly a post-facto approval that was given by the (empowered group of ministers) eGoM in fixing the rules and we felt that, you know, rules should not be fixed.
Nira: Whether we have a local standard or no cannot be fixed after a bid process is over. Coal, Natural resource. Then we come to spectrum.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: Spectrum- Sunil Mittal, all of us are fighting for a basis that a retrospective approval was given by great Raja...
Rahul: Hmm!
Nira: ...to Anil Ambani on a policy. And a policy was declared in the middle of the night and an LOI was issued.
Nira: Spectrum granted to him immediately and only after that was every other application processed.
Rahul: Right.
Nira: Matter is again in the Supreme Court.
Rahul: Right.
Nira: Third thing of course, gas. Here is a 364 page judgement that comes out from a High Court judge yesterday who relies... I mean TK has very well summed it up by saying that it is a natural resource.
Nira: How can an agreement between two brothers have any bearing on the natural resource of the country?
Rahul: Right.
Nira: And fourthly, look at Tata Steel fighting a battle in Jharkhand where iron ore mines are being allocated by state governments to Anil Ambani group when they don't even have a steel plant in function.
Rahul: Right.
Nira: In all cases we are in the Supreme Court.
Rahul: Yaa.
Nira: RIL I am sure will move to the Supreme Court because this is a pathetic judgement.
Rahul: Sure.
Nira: I mean it doesn't make sense. The point I am making is that this is a natural resource. I mean government...
Nira: ...there has to be a call that has to be taken where they've got this one group, for personal profit and gain. Because obviously I... I feel more for it because I am on the receiving end from both my clients.
Rahul: Yaa.
Nira: I can see it. I can see that my clients are... The desperation from both their points of view that here is a person... therefore who really is fixing the system.
Niira: I've heard it from Raja on spectrum, directly, saying Niira, I have a party to run.
Rahul: Right.
Nira: You know, I have seen Ratan Tata go to the Prime Minister when we were having coal. We were playing coalition pol... And there was the last -
Nira: But in the last regime when they put his hands up and said you know, what do I do, I have a coalition partner.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: And this is a natural resource of the country.
Rahul: That is not valid any more.
Nira: What?
Rahul: I mean coalition partner.
Nira: No agreed. I am... Now it is not. What I am saying is today whether it is the judiciary or whether... where it is at a High Court level or it is the Supreme Court.
Nira: You know, in the case of Tata Power one more thing had happened to them, which was they were not allowed by the High Court also to do distribution in Mumbai.
Rahul: Right.
Nira: We went to the Supreme Court and got the order.
Rahul: Right.
Nira: So, at each stage one has to keep on fighting its business and go to a higher court, a higher court, a higher court because systems get fixed.
Rahul: Yaa.
Nira: I have seen that in telecom. The ministers have told me on my face that don't fight this battle.
Rahul: Hmm!
Nira: You know, we have taken a decision. I have a party to run.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: You know. The point I am making is from a media point of view...
Rahul: Ehuh!
Nira: Isn't there a view. I... You know, coverage you have to do what you did yesterday. Perfectly fine.
Nira: We lost the battle. No, I am not complaining huh. Please don't take me wrong and I don't want to be taken wrong in this at all.
Rahul: You know I have... We had kept it pretty straight forward. Headline is RNRL to get gas at 2.34.
Nira: Absolutely. Yaa.
Rahul: Bombay High Court ruling, Reliance should honour family settlement. That's all.
Nira: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Rahul: And then she may have added another line below saying that Reliance may challenge decision in Supreme Court.
Rahul: So I think you know that it is absolutely straight forward. I didn't want to you know, say Mukesh and... You know, set back for Mukesh.
photo reference
Nira: Correct. Correct. I saw that. I saw the others do Mukesh and Anil and photographs and stuff like that.
Rahul: Exactly. And you will appreciate that I haven't done it huh.
Nira: No, no, I know it is not done here.
Rahul: Long standing this thing with Mr. Ambani as well that you know don't put us together. Don't compare, don't do this... I am not, this is...
Rahul: Actually in theory you can't much avoid because it is about the two brothers fighting it... I mean the two companies fighting it out right.
Nira: Correct.
Rahul: But still we have kept the... tone and all neutral and it is all...
Nira: No, no, no. I appreciate. I appreciate and Rahul I am actually not even calling to complain. Please don't take me wrong ... You had to do what you have done and it is... It is fine.
Rahul: I am not... I am also...
Nira: I am coming at it... I am coming at it from a different point of view.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: I am saying there is a... I am not saying he is the menace. It can be anyone.
Rahul: Yaa, yaa!
Nira: But there is a natural resource of the country whether it is coal, whether it is spectrum, whether it is gas.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: If there is not... Don't we have a responsibility?
Rahul: Right.
Nira: I mean I am saying this to Mukesh also. That look you know, perhaps government has to take over responsibility of all natural resources.
Nira: I said to Mr. Tata last night when he was in New York and I said to him, I said listen, this is what has happened and he was pretty shocked and I said you know I am going to put this... Push this point and I want your approval.
Rahul: Right!
Nira: And he said absolutely and if you want me to write to the Prime Minister I will do so.
Nira: That natural resources of the country need to be delt with much much more differently.
Rahul: Right.
Nira: You can't have a High Court. I mean I am sure we'll go to Supreme Court and... that is RIL. But then there will be Tata power who will also do...
Nira: I mean they have gone on Sasan. Because they are pretty sure about their argument that there has been diversion of coal for personal profit.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: Not in public interest. Rahul I... I just am just seeking ehh..
Nira: May be I am being emotional because of my client but I am just seeking you know a broad view from you as to, you know, just as a friend. Just to say, you know, don't you think this is right?
Rahul: ...My whole (Unclear)... yesterday was sort of keep it muted and neutral as far as possible.
Rahul: So we'll... Let me... Let me just see what we can do. We will definitely, you know, we will do something about it.
Nira: No I want... Even if you don't do anything about it. That's not the reason I am calling.
Nira: I am calling because I just wanted a frank opinion from... You know I thought I'd just you know...
Nira: Its just gone on for so long and I have seen it being faced by two of India's largest groups today.
Nira: So I am just wondering you know. Where are we? You know. A nuclear deal happens and you fix the spectrum.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: You know, if something else happens and you fix coal.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: You know, at whose hands are we? That's the point I am making and I have seen it happen and you know, you know Ratan.
Nira: He'll never do anything that is out of his... That would be wrong.
Rahul: Yaa!
Nira: And in power... And finally when they have got their distribution license issued from the Supreme Court.
Rahul: Hmm!
Nira: These guys held us back for five years. Didn't allow a distribution license to be issued to us.
Rahul: Right, yaa, yaa. No I understand.
Nira: Yaa. So that's the limited point I am trying to make and just was hoping that... I just wanted an opinion from you.
Nira: That is the little this thing and just to say thanks. You didn't write Anil and Mukesh and that type of shit.
Rahul: No, no and also...
Nira: And I am really grateful for TK Arun's point of view. I thought that was really really really good.
Rahul: Exactly, so, so, that point of view is also there. So I think that let's see what we can do. We'll keep this in mind. We will be sensitive.
Rahul: You know, we'll, we will not be Ehh... We will not go over the top in all this. And and and... We'll keep it facts etc. and all of that. So that's... That we will definitely do.
Nira: Ok. Thanks.
Rahul: On anything else you may need, just feel free to...
Nira: No I have... Bodhi, Bodhi...No, no, Bodhi called me. I am trying to get him Ramodar Roy on 22nd and Sridharan send me mails.
Nira: I am... I have got request from all the others but don't worry. I am putting Kishor, Chokar, Gopal with you guys on ET Now.
Rahul: Ok Great.
Nira: Yaa! So then, I am doing that for the budget.
Rahul: Ravikanth any chance?
Nira: Ravikanth's travelling is really caught up on JLR. Lets not pull him out of that one. Let him, let him...
Nira: Maybe I'll get you Telang or the, or the CFO is not very good on television. He needs a bit of media training but let me see if I can get one of them. They are just so caught up on JLR.
Rahul: Ok.
Nira: But I'll get you Koushik Chatterjee who is the CFO for Tata Steel.
Rahul: Ok. And I have told, I have told Shri to be in touch with you and I have also had word with Bodhi so... So Bodhi... So I mean I am working on it.
Rahul: Give me a few weeks and I think we should be there and we will keep an eye on all of that. Right.
Nira: Yaa, he called me today Bodhi. I said don't worry. I said I know Ravi is... I mean look he said no, I can't tell Bodhi. I didn't want to tell Bodhi why he said no.
Nira: But I didn't want to... But Bodhi... He was not going to do it. I knew that. Ravi called me and said you know, send the mail.
Rahul: I am trying to make everyone take two steps forward and no steps backward.
Rahul: So if a preemptive call is always better than a call to crib from both sides.
Rahul: I don't want to call and crib to you and you must if you feel that tomorrow is a big day and something happens then you know, other than us watching...
Rahul: You know, watching it closely. So just call so we'll fix it before it actually gets done.
Nira: Right.
Rahul: So, so these things we will do and we will... The other thing Nira if possible if you could send those messages. If it is not possible that's also fine.
Rahul: ...I understand, but if you could then we need it in the next couple of days.
Nira: The two messages no. Yaa. Ok.
Rahul: I mean from both...
Nira: See, I did tell them both on Friday and they were supposed to... I'll just chase up... I'll reach...
Nira: Well I will only reach Ratan tonight so ill talk to him in the evening.
Rahul: I mean whichever way I mean just one... We need just one sort of... It could be, you could pull it out of the letter...you could do whatever...
(Tape ends abruptly.)
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