Radia Tapes: 080 - Radia, Vir Sanghvi
Duration: 00:07:10; Aspect Ratio: 1.250:1; Lightness: 0.081; Volume: 0.233; Cuts per Minute: 2.786; Words per Minute: 188.865
Vir Sanghvi: Now I can talk to you.
Radia: I just got off the treadmill. On this battle.. I need to get Mukesh to come out and talk.
Radia: But the thing is, Vir, we will have to speak.. if he talks, we will have to carry it, in the sense that you know he.. I think they are very conscious of every line, everything that goes out..
Vir Sanghvi: Yeah..
Radia: Because its a battle at the end of the day for them.
Radia: And also, whether we bring it into print.
Vir Sanghvi: Right.
Radia: That's the other issue. And, I think see..
Vir sanghvi: You see, Anil can't afford to give interviews because he will be asked about other things, so many things. But the advantage Mukesh has is that he can talk na
? And there is nothing for them to be embarrased about.
Vir Sanghvi: And there are so many skeletons in Anil's closet that he doesn't want to clarify. If he comes on and says, 'Amar Singh is my close friend', he's fucked. If he comes on, he says, 'I have no relation with Amar Singh' and that Amar Singh will kill him. So there are many awkward things and he has decided to avoid the media. Mukesh doesn't have that problem.
Vir Sanghvi: Mukesh can talk straight, can say things, you can reherse, he can work out a script in advance, he can go exactly according to the script.. Anil can't do any of those things.
Radia: Right. But we can do that no?
Vir Sanghvi: Yeah, but Mukesh has to be on board. He has sort of realized that it has to be fully scripted.
Radia: I think that's what he is asking me. He is saying, 'Look Neera I don't want anything extempore.
Vir Sanghvi: No, it has to be fully scripted. I will have to come in and do a run through with him before.
Vir Sanghvi: We have to reherse it before the camera comes in. Then it's worth doing.
Vir Sanghvi: Otherwise there's a lot at stake.
Radia: Yeah, that's right. That's one point. But other thing was that when Rohit.. on this particular article, of course they are right now.. because Anil is going all out. We are gonna start talking.
Radia: But I think the challenge that I am facing is, I think we need to set the tone. What has happened as far as the order is concerned, is completely against national interest.
Vir Sanghvi: Okay
Radia: Even if you were to assume that they get gas, or they get coal, or they get iron ore, or whatever one gets, if you look at how Tatas have always gone into those areas and done something for the people even before they have been able to extract anything out of it.
Vir Sanghvi: Right.
Radia: Here, the culture of.. you know, if you set up a power plant in Shahpur which Rohit will brief you, is all setting up a power plant in Dadri- one would ask the question have you done anything for those people, eventhough you are taking their land from them?
Vir Sanghvi: Yeah
Radia: I can say today with a hand on my heart whether it is Kalinganagar or we are fighting the Maoists, or whether it is Singur where we fought Mamta, we continued doing work- whether our plant came up or not.
Vir Sanghvi: What kind of story do you want? So this will go as Counter Point, so it will be like most, most read.. so it can't seem too swamped, you know its an ideal opportunity to get all the points across
Radia: But, basically the point is, that what has happened as far as the High Court is concerned, is a very painful thing for the country. Because, what he has done is against national interest. I think that's the underlying message.
Vir Sanghvi: Okay. That message we will do.. the allocation of the resouces, which are scarce national resources of a poor country cannot be done in this arbitary fashion to benefit few rich people.
Radia: That's right.
Vir sanghvi: That mesasage we will get across. What other points do we need to make?
Radia: I think we need to say that it is a lesson for the corporate world... you know, they need to think through. Whenever they want to look at this- whether they seriously do give back to society.
Vir Sanghvi: So I will link it to the election verdict. The fact that there has been so much NREGA, that Sania has committed to including everybody. That it should be inclusive growth, it shouldn't just benefit a few fat cats, it shouldn't be cronyism, it shouldn't be arbitary..
Vir Sanghvi: That how the message for this five years Manmohan Singh should be- that you have to put an end to this kind of allocation of scarce resources on the basis of corruption and arbitariness at the cost of the country. Otherwise the country will not forgive you.
Radia: Yeah, but Vir we have to keep in mind that fact that he has been given the Gas Field by the government to operate. He has spent 10 billion dollars on it.
Vir Sanghvi: Okay
Radia: Anil Ambani is getting the benefit without spending..
Vir Sanghvi: I will make those point. So people..
Vir Sanghvi: Because the system is so corrupt, and open to manipulation, by manipulating the system, by not paying anybody, you can get hands on resources. Therefore, we only raise Manmohan Singh's hopes to survive, to get a handle on the resources and have some kind of way of allocating them; that is transparent fair and perhaps done by him.
Radia: But there you would be attacking Mukesh only na?
Vir Sanghvi: Why explain that?
Radia: You see because resources have been allocated to Mukesh.
Vir Sanghvi: So what point do you want me to make?
Radia: No, the point we are making is that here.. but the point is limited to the fact that you cannot have a High Court deciding on this, or you cannot have a Tribunal deciding on this..
Vir Sanghvi: What about ministers?
Radia: Even Ministers!
Vir Sanghvi: The spectrum and co. is ministers na?
Radia: Ya, even ministers. You wanna really look at.. maybe there is an EGoM that got set and looking at the pricing issue.. and natural resource should be decided not by any of these arbitary mechanism it has to be one for the country. Because there has to be some sort of formula...
Vir Sanghvi: That's the message you know- that it will be a formula, the way resoruces will be allocated in a transparent, non arbitary sort of way. That has to be the message.
Radia: Yeah and also..
Vir Sanghvi: If you want resources you have to give back to the society, they have to pay the government, they have to do Corporate Social responsibility, they have to care about people who will be displaced, people who are going to lose things- you can't just go ahead and rape the system.
Radia: Yeah, and but you want to say that more importantly, here a family MOU has taken precedence over national interest. And what the judge has done- you will have to attack the judge here-
Radia: Because what he has done is he has given preference to an MOU and held on to the MOU and said 'Okay, this has to be implemented'. But he has forgotten what's good and therefore it raises a bigger constitutional issue.
Vir Sanghvi: Which is?
Radia: Which is..national resources is really a constitutional issue! It has to do with country and nation.
Vir Sanghvi: It is not between two brothers and their fights.
Radia: It's not and therefore the judge's interpretation of an MOU cannot be the basis on the way we can proceed on these sort of issues.
Radia: I mean, you have to attack the fact that the judge is gone into the MOU. His entire judgement is on the basis of the MOU.
Vir Sanghvi: Yeah
Radia: And therefore the judgment between two family members cannot be how you decide the future.
Vir Sanghvi: Okay. Let me explain them and then I will talk to you what line I am taking when I
Radia: And you do it for next Sunday is it?