Radia Tapes: 047 - Radia, Shalini Singh Tata Group
Duration: 00:12:37; Aspect Ratio: 1.250:1; Lightness: 0.077; Volume: 0.299; Cuts per Minute: 3.802; Words per Minute: 196.848
Niira: Sorry Shalini, network issues.
Shalini: No problem.
Niira: Yeah, you were saying? So yesterday...you are going to tell them that uh...you'll be able to tell basically, but address the north Mumbaikars more, in specific (if you click, its going to come to you) directly.
Niira: That's the sort of, you know...I just expect that, for them to do that otherwise they're going to send people to picket out at Bombay House and uh -
Shalini: That might still happen, Niira. You are absolutely on the ball, that might still happen, which could be people who they pay to do it, you know?
Niira: Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.
Niira: But I think what may be very interesting is to have people say in North Bombay that that's great, we're gonna have Tatas giving us power who gave us power in Bombay for a 100 years ago - they were the first, bring that sort of...maybe we have to set it up, maybe we some consumers from North Bombay to make that statement saying this is really great.
Shalini: Hmm, hmm. Okay, okay.
Niira: Okay, so I've told this to Rakesh, I've given some inputs and all so I think -
Niira: - Yeah, so Monday we would be uh -
Shalini: Yeah, Monday we are targetting. Yeah, you, we would really appreciate - if you have time - for you to look at the letter also, which would go to them.
Niira: No no, it's coming to, he said...Rakesh said he's sending me a -
Shalini: Okay, that draft? Yeah. Okay I'll send Rakesh a draft but it's not finalised as yet. We're still getting the lawyers - because you know, some of the language is a little harsh.
Niira: Hmm hmm.
Shalini: So we're wondering if the lawyers will temper it. So in case...that's likely to happen tomorrow, so I will uh send to Rakesh and to probably you and Vishal the final letter which goes on Monday.
Niira: Great, great. Because I did tell Rakesh send me uh, the letters, I'd be very happy to look at those, would be very very -
Shalini: Great. So I - the first time -
Niira: So let's go forward, let's go finalise.
Shalini: Yeah I'm really excited.
Shalini: And I wanted you to know for, to prove that we are...we are actually, your push is helping.
Niira: (Laughing) That's great. There's one more thing, Shalini.
Shalini: Yeah, tell me.
Niira: What is the bottomline or the topline, do we have any idea, because they are obviously going to lose out on uh, topline.
Shalini: Hmm, hmm hmm.
Niira: I don't know what their bottomline position is going to be, as it is, I think - So I, what I would like to do is if I understand that they're going to have a - obviously they're going to go to the grid and buy 500 megawatts somewhere.
Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
Niira: Or they're going to get it from uh XYZ. Now, whatever it is, there's still an uncertainty, but our people in Tata Power would be able to tell us what are the possibilities of them getting. That one is going to have an impact on their stock price.
Niira: The second is going to be uh the fact that they will be having a challenge as far getting power is concerned.
Niira: It's already you know, um, and therefore it's going to have an impact on the topline, definitely, and bottomline of course.
Niira: But I would then like to push that sort of a story through Manoj, and tell Neucom-
Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm. I have an interesting - I have an interesting thing to tell you, actually it will impact more of the bottomline than, and of course, there would be...topline also would be affected because Niira you know what would happen is, this 500 megawatts which we have, okay -
Shalini: It will go, it will actually...for the...for the short while, that is available for us to merchant, also.
Niira: Uh huh.
Shalini: So there is this bidding, where REL- where we will tell REL that you can buy that power but you'll have to buy it via our Tata Power trading which means you'll pay a higher price. Case - 1 bidding. So it will directly impact their bottomline in that case.
Niira: Uh huh.
Shalini: So bottomline impact is very clear, if they had to even buy this power it's available, so they will have to buy it at a higher price and not at the regulated price, because they don't have a PPA and they have been playing difficult, hmm? The second part is even if we - sorry?
Niira: Uh huh.
Shalini: The second part is: so definitely the impact is more of bottomline if they buy this power. If they go out, then they will get power even at a higher price. Which is 11. 8-9 rupees, right now this is 5, at a case - 1 bidding they might get it at 7.30 or something. 7-7.30, that's our estimation.
Shalini: And if they go out in the market they will have to probably buy it on a day-to-day basis, in certain cases, or they might have to - so it's a lot of work, basically, for them.
Niira: That's a great thing, because, see, I'm looking at now from the impact that's gonna have as far as the financial institutions towards them.
Niira: The messaging going out to them, and then you have Manoj - Neucom to put those positionings out?
Shalini: And we can instigate BEST at some point of time, I'm not saying now, to actually say that look, they're not being ab - they don't have the, they've not made the arrangements as the distribution company, which is actually their uh...basically, their responsibility, and we can actually tell Mark that you should cancel their licence because they're not able to service consumers. So you know, that kind of thing BEST has been raising.
Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm. The other thing is that Rakesh needs to push...
Shalini: Hmm, hmm.
Niira: And needs to push that sort of messaging via the journalist, ask them to ask BEST what will happen, and they'll say, if they can't provide them we'll have to cancel their licence.
Shalini: Yes, and I think that would be very interesting. That is what - I don't know how much it is possible, but I think uh, that is the time too really raise this issue, either through BEST or through Consumer Group -
Shalini: On basically saying that if you can't take your power, let's not re-look at their licence.
Niira: But you know, Shalini, if they still have to go out and get power from outside, which they're gonna do, and or they're going to have to bid through the uh merchant uh, you know, your route that you're suggesting -
Niira: They're still going to pass the Consumer Tariff one to the...they're gonna pass it on to the consumer, so -
Shalini: Hmm, hmm.
Niira: They're gonna say look if you're going to have to pay eleven rupees now that's because that's what I'm having to pay from Tata, they're getting greedy and want to earn more profits.
Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
Niira: So that may be still a googly that will hurt you.
Shalini: Oh yes, it will.
Niira: Yeah, yeah.
Shalini: You're absoutely right, they'll blame us, they will blame us.
Niira: So we'll keep on reinforcing that message that no well they you don't...you have a choice, we also have a licence, so we will any case provide you directly. Whatever is our price, we will provide you at that, and with the consumer you know, will feel, and then with you're not going to have to go direct - you can go directly with us, we're the generator, we're also the distributor.
Shalini: Hmm, hmm.
Niira: So you any case, you cut out the middleman so as to say - he said, those sort of statements in the market, at least -
Shalini: The only problem is - There's only one problem, uh, Niira, right now.
Shalini: See, our network, okay, uh...is an issue right now, okay?
Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
Shalini: In the sense that we have some 26,000 customers over the last one year, ever since the license - in July we got the licence, we've added about 3,000 customers, 2,600 - we have serious network expansion issues therefore you know the...we are not hundred per cent geared up to say, okay, uh, if one of the Reliance consumer (sic) gets up tomorrow and says I am at X location, it's not necessary that we actually have a network to service him.
Shalini: So we'll have to see, so that is a caveat and I wanna, want to just uh, tell you our limitations, that - it's not that - right now the network is mature enough to service anybody and everybody, that's one of the reasons why we are in the retail uh, um... we've applied already for the CAPEX etc, and that is going to get cleared in the next few days, that order is going to come, on the three years expansion plan.
Shalini: So that's one thing where we will have to uh, you know, either regulator has to step into allow REL's access to be used - the transmission capacity and the distribution capacity - to be used to even service that customer, and we could be the last mile connection, that kind of thing. That, which - which is again, you know them much more than any one of us in the sense that how difficult they can be on infrastructure sharing also, na
Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
Niira: Okay, so you're going to have to use them, is it?
Shalini: Hmm, no not necessarily, we, see, we will be very lucky if few consumers get up, are consumers who are near our current receiving stations, who we could just pull the wire and help, okay? But if it is, if it is too - if it is too far away from some of the existing receiving stations, then it actually means - network actually means that you have to set up these substations and receiving stations to be able to service. Which we, as a generator are - uh, has to expand, much more than anybody else.
Niira: Hmm, hmm, hmm, okay.
Shalini: So that part is uh, is...is uh -
Niira: Okay, but I think it's no harm in saying that we are going to be retailing and all -
Shalini: Yes, yes, there is no harm, no no, not at all, not at all. In fact we have very clearly said that we're going into growth areas, we are very...we said if we're not even targetting switchovers right now because Bombay demand is growing substantially and uh we're looking at growth areas and uh, and you know, around our substations whatever areas which happen to be all North Bombay actually.
Niira: Great, great. I'm glad, I'm glad we're doing - going for aggressive again.
Niira: So that financial you know, if you have some info on the sort of financials that are going to get uh...I'm sure your people have done some sums.
Shalini: Hmm, hmm, they have.
Niira: That'd be very useful, then I can use...Tell Rakesh you know, also to (inaudible) full stories also along with them and give them info technology also. That'd be useful, Shalini if you can get that also.
Shalini: Sure, sure sure.
Niira: Thanks so much, and all the best -
Shalini: Thank you Niira, and we need all the - we need all the good wishes I think -
Shalini: This is one of the toughest fights that we're going to be having. Section 11 is the only thing that worries us in all of this because of the - Niira, one thing that we want to just tell you, it's not on your radar, is that the State elections are scheduled in September-October, okay?
Shalini: So if they, um, raise too much of ruckus, REL, then because of the consumer thing and because of the State elections etcetera, State government can be - can play safe.
Niira: Yeah well they'll enforce attack, right, they'll enforce that uh - even if a gray area though, isn't it?
Shalini: Yeah, it's a gray area, we'll have to take our chances you know, that's why I um, we have to take our chance, it's now or never.
Niira: (yawning) Well you're gonna have Shiv Sena after you next.
Niira: That's what's gonna happen. Because they went after them, so you're going to have the same Shiv Sainiks coming after you saying you can't do that, you know.
, can happen.
Niira: So that's what they'll do, and they'll you know, create a bit of a ruckus.
Shalini: Only only if we - if they feel we are responsible otherwise they can still go after REL.
Niira: I don't think so, they'll turn the tables.
Niira: No, no, I don't think so. Don't, don't, because they would have by now sorted that out, because remember that Uddhav and them already take funding from both groups, you know.
Niira: So -
Shalini: Yeah, suddenly they're very quite also, actually.
Niira: Yeah, they would've handled that, and therefore that's the first group they're going to turn on your head. Therefore my suggestion is tell Prasad that he should get Krishnakumar to talk to Uddhav.
Shalini: Accha, okay, okay.
Niira: Simultaneously you know, we should just make sure that we don't get - if we feel, that even if we get a sense that they're gonna, then KK should pick up the phone and tell him that you do not go after the Tatas on this one, you know.
Shalini: Okay, okay okay.
Niira: Because KK has a good rapport with him.
Shalini: Okay, okay.
Niira: Hmm? Otherwise I'll see how I can use the other group to get a message across through them...in order to say ke
(that) go after them instead, na
Niira: Yeah? We'll try that. Okay, but - we'll both work on this together so that we'll just uh -
Shalini: Sure, sure -
Niira: - brief KK and then I'll separately tell them to tell uh, Uddhav to go after them instead, yeah?
Niira: That may be the better way to do it. I don't think Congress and the others are going to do too much, but you never know.
Shalini: -Know, hmm.
Niira: Yeah, but the State government may take a call, and may say -
Niira: - no, you know, this is uh...
Shalini: And Power is anyway quite a burning issue for Maharashtra government na, always?
Niira: Correct, correct, and they won't uh - they'll see that as a threat, yeah.
Shalini: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
Niira: Okay, well let's see. Be careful of the MNS and all that, they're the ones that'll use this as a (sic) opportunity of the big industrialist trying to (inaudible) poor man and all that, so that could be an MNS hang up. So let's see, let's let's -
Shalini: Yeah, I guess we've to take our chances though.
Shalini: I said, I guess we -